Vaccine or not?

#11,202
#11,202
NorthDallas40 said:
Nope again. Abbott’s EO insures consistency in legislation rollout and barrs the overreach of the federal executive office. Go read my reply to louder on why many Texans wanted this temporary EO which is all it is. It insures a smooth Texas legislation rollout on this topic.
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So you're ok with Abbot's executive overreach?
 
#11,204
#11,204
hog88 said:
So you're ok with Abbot's executive overreach?
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It isn’t over reach. His EO is completely within the power of his state Governor’s office per Texas constitution. Biden has no such power per the federal constitution and thus used federal offices to usurp that power.
 
#11,205
#11,205
NorthDallas40 said:
No it isn’t. He’s acting within his power to insure a consistent legislation enaction timeline. This is exactly what a very large number of Texans were hoping would happen based on the likely timeline of events that would have unfolded.

  • Texas house passes legislation mirrored by the EO but it takes a minimum of 90 days to go into effect.
  • OSHA actually puts draconian rules in place that the Biden EO wanted.
  • Companies take employment action against employees based in the new OSHA regs
  • Those regs OSHA regs become moot once the previously passed legislation goes into effect.
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Again popularity or justification doesnt make a difference to me, or make it any less statism. It just shifts the statism from the federal level down to the state level.
 
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#11,206
#11,206
hog88 said:
Sorry but it is.

Telling a company it cannot discriminate based on vaxx status is the same as telling one it has to bake a cake.
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Ok. We don’t agree plain and simple. The minds of a huge number of Texans are at ease today as they don’t have to worry about their employer enacting over reaching mandates from the federal executive. I’ll take it.
 
#11,207
#11,207
hog88 said:
Yes it is.

How long do you think this mandate would go on if even 1/2 of airline employees just say nope? I can tell you truckers are saying nope by the truckload and when the trucks stop so does this country.
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Unfortunately I will not have that option. And I am too old to start over in a new field.
 
#11,208
#11,208
NorthDallas40 said:
It isn’t over reach. His EO is completely within the power of his state Governor’s office per Texas constitution. Biden has no such power per the federal constitution and thus used federal offices to usurp that power.
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How is it not overreach? Would it be overreach on his part if he signed an EO or the legislature passed a bill barring discrimination against people with nose rings and face tattoos?
 
#11,209
#11,209
LouderVol said:
Again popularity or justification doesnt make a difference to me, or make it any less statism. It just shifts the statism from the federal level down to the state level.
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It isn’t statism. It actually counter acts actual statism and more basically federal executive over reach. The POTUS has no DIRECT power to exercise over individual citizens.
 
#11,210
#11,210
NorthDallas40 said:
Ok. We don’t agree plain and simple. The minds of a huge number of Texans are at ease today as they don’t have to worry about their employer enacting over reaching mandates from the federal executive. I’ll take it.
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Well you're talking about Texas minds so............
 
#11,212
#11,212
hog88 said:
How is it not overreach? Would it be overreach on his part if he signed an EO or the legislature passed a bill barring discrimination against people with nose rings and face tattoos?
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I already explained how it isn’t overreach. Biden actually is attempting over reach with his EO. Abbott is countering what is clear over reach by the idiot in chief.
 
#11,214
#11,214
hog88 said:
Well you're talking about Texas minds so............
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I’ve been waiting in this debate for that reply and the chance to drop this.

The abortion law is horrible and I don’t agree with it. But it’s not over reach it’s within the state legislature’s purview… at least for now.

This EO and the eventual legislation restore the correct state that the federal actual over reach caused.
 
#11,215
#11,215
hog88 said:
The correct counter on Abbot's part would be stating Biden's mandate will not be recognized in Texas.
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So like it or not that’s what the EO does. Biden used OSHA to implement his actual over reach. Abbott defanged OSHA from having that capability in Texas.
 
#11,217
#11,217
NorthDallas40 said:
I’ve been waiting in this debate for that reply and the chance to drop this.

The abortion law is horrible and I don’t agree with it. But it’s not over reach it’s within the state legislature’s purview… at least for now.

This EO and the eventual legislation restore the correct state that the federal actual over reach caused.
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All you are doing there is replacing one overreach with another.
 
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#11,218
#11,218
NorthDallas40 said:
So like it or not that’s what the EO does. Biden used OSHA to implement his actual over reach. Abbott defanged OSHA from having that capability in Texas.
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No, it's the same because he took away the right of the employer to set their own employment policies.
 
#11,219
#11,219
hog88 said:
No, it's the same because he took away the right of the employer to set their own employment policies.
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Ok you get a debate point on the technicality here. Abbott’s EO limits any state government entity from exerting power over private companies. However it also does in fact expand limitations related to employer discrimination against employees such as race, religion, etc…
 
#11,220
#11,220
NorthDallas40 said:
I’ve been waiting in this debate for that reply and the chance to drop this.

The abortion law is horrible and I don’t agree with it. But it’s not over reach it’s within the state legislature’s purview… at least for now.

This EO and the eventual legislation restore the correct state that the federal actual over reach caused.
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How is the abortion law within the state legislatures purview for now, but issuing vaccine mandates isn’t within OSHA’s?
 
#11,222
#11,222
RockyTop85 said:
How is the abortion law within the state legislatures purview for now, but issuing vaccine mandates isn’t within OSHA’s?
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That’s not what I said. Biden has no direct power over the citizens so he’s trying to exert power via OSHA. Abbott has actual direct power over the citizens of his state… and the government entities operating within his state.

And I don’t think the abortion law will stand once a challenge with standing is made in court. Thus the “for now”
 
#11,224
#11,224
Wafflestomper said:
You do know they put you in jail for simply possessing drugs, right? As far as I know, no one is going to jail for not taking a shot (well, maybe aside from the military).
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Certain amounts or types of drugs. There are elements to the laws. However drug use directly affects others not just the drug addict. A vaccine only affects the person taking it
 
#11,225
#11,225
hog88 said:
Nobody has the right to be employed.
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This is where it gets sticky for me.

What does a business typically have to do change the terms of employment? And that's not employment status. Not saying they cant be fired. I just see issues with a business suddenly saying employees get paid less, or have to work longer hours for same pay.
 
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