Vaccine or not?

[LouderVol]

I think the issue is the conclusions that are being reached based on the body of data. Even if you agree that all the reports are legitimate, which there's no reason to think they are, you still need to interpret the data in context to make an informed decision. Parading out raw unverified data to support a conclusion is not exactly a rigorous scientific process.

You mean like the FDA studying the data and saying boosters werent needed, then the beauracy above them ignoring that informed opinion to say boosters are needed?

It's funny how this interpretation business is only allowed to go one way.

 

[LouderVol]

We both agree that the federal government does not have the right to impose such mandates. If a mandate is to be issued, that should be done under directives from state and local leadership.

Now, having said that, Sheriff Tom Spangler is not accounting for the possibility that refusing to take a vaccination might also put the lives of Knox County citizens in immediate danger.

I see a lot of posts that make individual freedom the issue. No such freedom extends to decisions which could adversely effect the health of other people. The President may not have the power to issue vaccination mandates .... but governors do.

So the vaccines dont work? I am confused, I thought they protected those who took it?

 

[Caculator]

View attachment 406122

How many did you kill before you got the vaccine

 

[BowlBrother85]

I am confused

Isn't that the state you're normally in?

I thought they protected those who took it?

COVID vaccines reduce the risk of contracting the disease, but they don't completely eliminate contraction as a possibility. You should account for the citizens who also remain unvaccinated .... and you should also take note that vaccinated people are less likely to become seriously ill from a breakthrough infection, than unvaccinated people are.

 

[LouderVol]

Isn't that the state your normally in?


COVID vaccines reduce the risk of contracting the disease, but they don't completely eliminate contraction as a possibility. You should account for the citizens who also remain unvaccinated .... and you should also take note that vaccinated people are less likely to become seriously ill from a breakthrough infection, than unvaccinated people are.

Yes, inconsistency constantly confuses me, it's why I spend most of my time on this board calling it out from both sides.

It's been at least 6 months since the vaccines became fully available to everyone. I think it's fair to say that anyone who wants that protection has got it. If you dont have it that's a personal choice at this point. So as far as KCPD is concerned the citizens have already determined their own needed level of protection.

And typically when the cops are involved I dont think people are too concerned about Covid.

As I keep saying if anyone actually cared about protecting people they would get tested consistently, vaccine or no.

All you are doing otherwise is arguing percentage points on the right side of the decimal. And at that scale it's not worth mandating.

 

[ButchPlz]

Yes, inconsistency constantly confuses me, it's why I spend most of my time on this board calling it out from both sides.

It's been at least 6 months since the vaccines became fully available to everyone. I think it's fair to say that anyone who wants that protection has got it. If you dont have it that's a personal choice at this point. So as far as KCPD is concerned the citizens have already determined their own needed level of protection.

And typically when the cops are involved I dont think people are too concerned about Covid.

As I keep saying if anyone actually cared about protecting people they would get tested consistently, vaccine or no.

All you are doing otherwise is arguing percentage points on the right side of the decimal. And at that scale it's not worth mandating.

All of COVID has been about decimal dust my dude. Just compare the amount of illness in this one with historical pandemics.

 

[BowlBrother85]

As I keep saying if anyone actually cared about protecting people they would get tested consistently, vaccine or no.

Not necessarily. An unvaccinated person probably doesn't take the threat of COVID seriously. Why would they worry about the threat to other people, if they have no fear of contraction for themselves?

 

[ButchPlz]

Not necessarily. An unvaccinated person probably doesn't take the threat of COVID seriously. Why would they worry about the threat to other people, if they have no fear of traction for themselves?

You didn't refute any of what he said.

Besides, if a vaccinated person both has milder symptoms and can still spread the illness, they could be an unknowing ticking time bomb to spread it, no?

 

[NorthDallas40]

I don't think either of us believe the results have been meaningfully skewed by penis reports. But perhaps people reporting headaches, fevers, injection site soreness, or other typical symptoms people experience after getting the vaccine have diluted the data. Either way, assuming the data is good to go without "demonstrable results" to the contrary is shifting the burden of proof and not how science works. The reports people (especially non medical professionals) make need to be investigated to determine whether there is a legitimate tie to the vaccine before it can be used as an argument against the vaccine.

Don’t disagree at all

 

[AshG]

Not necessarily. An unvaccinated person probably doesn't take the threat of COVID seriously. Why would they worry about the threat to other people, if they have no fear of traction for themselves?

An unvaccinated individual can still take the virus seriously. There's multiple data points that each person considers, not all of them apparent to anyone else.

 

[NorthDallas40]

We both agree that the federal government does not have the right to impose such mandates. If a mandate is to be issued, that should be done under directives from state and local leadership.

Now, having said that, Sheriff Tom Spangler is not accounting for the possibility that refusing to take a vaccination might also put the lives of Knox County citizens in immediate danger.

I see a lot of posts that make individual freedom the issue. No such freedom extends to decisions which could adversely effect the health of other people. The President may not have the power to issue vaccination mandates .... but governors do.

Sure he is. People need to manage their own lives… and ONLY their own lives. And I’m glad I live in a state where the Governor respects and acts to protect the personal freedom of the states citizens. Right @hog88 ?

 

[BowlBrother85]

All of COVID has been about decimal dust my dude. Just compare the amount of illness in this one with historical pandemics.

The most pertinent statistic is the ratio of COVID-related hospitalizations that require treatment in an intensive care unit to ICU capacity. Prior to the vaccines, ICU's were being overrun with COVID patients. This was placing medical centers in big cities under high stress. That problem has been dramatically reduced by vaccines.

 

[Wafflestomper]

You mean like the FDA studying the data and saying boosters werent needed, then the beauracy above them ignoring that informed opinion to say boosters are needed?

It's funny how this interpretation business is only allowed to go one way.

Who says it's only allowed to go one way? I agree that we should be making policies based on our best understanding of the data available.

 

[BowlBrother85]

An unvaccinated individual can still take the virus seriously. There's multiple data points that each person considers, not all of them apparent to anyone else.

There will be exceptions to just about anything, but most people who have remained unvaccinated do so, because they think the threat of COVID has been overblown by Democrats and the liberal media.

 

[McDad]

There will be exceptions to just about anything, but most people who have remained unvaccinated do so, because they think the threat of COVID has been overblown by Democrats and the liberal media.

How can that be when some demographics which are routinely D voters are choosing to not be vaxxed? Also, there are many people in other countries declining the vax who care nothing about our politics or media.

 

[NorthDallas40]

There will be exceptions to just about anything, but most people who have remained unvaccinated do so, because they think the threat of COVID has been overblown by Democrats and the liberal media.

I have the jab. I do think COVID has been overblown by the parties you mention, specifically to reinforce any dumbassery coming from the idiot in chief, but also from other people. I also think several GOP are needlessly downplaying any risk. It isn’t political FFS… or shouldn’t be.

 

[ButchPlz]

The most pertinent statistic is the ratio of COVID-related hospitalizations that require treatment in an intensive care unit to ICU capacity. Prior to the vaccines, ICU's were being overrun with COVID patients. This was placing medical centers in big cities under high stress. That problem has been dramatically reduced by vaccines.

Here's a fun one for you then- pick out, 100% correctly, the most and least vaccinated states from the attached data visualizations.

Then consider these stories from two highly vaccinated countries:

Singapore Urges Caution as Rising Cases May Test ICU System

Health officials predict thousands of seriously ill COVID patients within month | The Times of Israel

I bring data and stories. You bring BS.

 

[utvolpj]

There will be exceptions to just about anything, but most people who have remained unvaccinated do so, because they think the threat of COVID has been overblown by Democrats and the liberal media.

I'm vaccinated and I think it's very overblown and lied about by the Dems and the media. At the very least it's been misrepresented

 

[BowlBrother85]

You didn't refute any of what he said.

Besides, if a vaccinated person both has milder symptoms and can still spread the illness, they could be an unknowing ticking time bomb to spread it, no?

Yes, I did. There is no reason for an unvaccinated person to get tested consistently, if they have no fear of contracting the virus.

 

[ButchPlz]

Yes, I did. There is no reason for an unvaccinated person to get tested consistently, if they have no fear of contracting the virus.

Then are they not acting irresponsibly and not taking the virus seriously since they can indeed catch and spread the virus?

 

[BowlBrother85]

Here's a fun one for you then- pick out, 100% correctly, the most and least vaccinated states from the attached data visualizations.

Then consider these stories from two highly vaccinated countries:

Singapore Urges Caution as Rising Cases May Test ICU System

Health officials predict thousands of seriously ill COVID patients within month | The Times of Israel

I bring data and stories. You bring BS.

To be pertinent, you would also need to contrast that with statistics from a year ago (pre-COVID). You bring nothing but pure ignorance to the table.

 

[ButchPlz]

To be pertinent, you would also need to contrast that with statistics from a year ago (pre-COVID). You bring nothing but pure ignorance to the table.

Why don't you try out providing some data for once? You haven't done it yet- are you dumb, or lazy?

I'll give you a head start:



This shows the vaccination data to the side. The charts I shared also have all time data along the bottom, since I assume what's happened is you didn't actually look.

 

[BowlBrother85]

Then are they not acting irresponsibly and not taking the virus seriously since they can indeed catch and spread the virus?

Read the post that I replied to, which claimed that unvaccinated people would get themselves tested consistently, if they cared about other people. That doesn't make any sense. If they don't care whether or not they have it themselves, then they aren't going to care whether or not their loved ones have it either.

 

[McDad]

BTW, the age groups most at risk are vaccinated above HIT:
Ages 12 to 17
12-17 49.1%
Ages 18 to 24
18-24 54.7%
Ages 25 to 39
25-39 58.9%
Ages 40 to 49
40-49 67.4%
Ages 50 to 64
50-64 74.9%
Ages 65 to 74
65-74 87.0%
Age 75 and up
75+ 81.7%

There really isn't a need to continue to push for more top-down bureaucratic vaccine mandates.

 

[Sea Ray]

Read the post that I replied to, which claimed that unvaccinated people would get themselves tested consistently, if they cared about other people. That doesn't make any sense. If they don't care whether or not they have it themselves, then they aren't going to care whether or not their loved ones have it either.

Well they should care