Vaccine or not?

#18,327
#18,327
SpaceCoastVol said:
Source?
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Risks of myocarditis, pericarditis, and cardiac arrhythmias associated with COVID-19 vaccination or SARS-CoV-2 infection | Nature Medicine

"We found increased risks of myocarditis associated with the first dose of ChAdOx1 and BNT162b2 vaccines and the first and second doses of the mRNA-1273 vaccine over the 1–28 days postvaccination period, and after a SARS-CoV-2 positive test. We estimated an extra two (95% confidence interval (CI) 0, 3), one (95% CI 0, 2) and six (95% CI 2, 8) myocarditis events per 1 million people vaccinated with ChAdOx1, BNT162b2 and mRNA-1273, respectively, in the 28 days following a first dose and an extra ten (95% CI 7, 11) myocarditis events per 1 million vaccinated in the 28 days after a second dose of mRNA-1273. This compares with an extra 40 (95% CI 38, 41) myocarditis events per 1 million patients in the 28 days following a SARS-CoV-2 positive test."

What's bigger, an extra 2, 6, 10 ... or an extra 40?
 
#18,328
#18,328
luthervol said:
True. Everyone was hoping the vaccine would offer greater protection. I think reasonable people should at least be able to agree that the vaccine offers some protection but not complete protection.
Then at least the debate could be narrowed to exactly how much protection.
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Don’t disagree. Personal opinion, I think history will likely show it being marginal.
 
#18,329
#18,329
kiddiedoc said:
Would you say the health care providers who have lost or are about to lose their jobs or privileges are being more than "minorly inconvenienced?"
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Absolutely! As are patrons who must wear shoes to get service. When will the attacks on freedom stop!? My body, my choice. You can't tell me I need to wear shoes.
 
#18,330
#18,330
evillawyer said:
Risks of myocarditis, pericarditis, and cardiac arrhythmias associated with COVID-19 vaccination or SARS-CoV-2 infection | Nature Medicine

"We found increased risks of myocarditis associated with the first dose of ChAdOx1 and BNT162b2 vaccines and the first and second doses of the mRNA-1273 vaccine over the 1–28 days postvaccination period, and after a SARS-CoV-2 positive test. We estimated an extra two (95% confidence interval (CI) 0, 3), one (95% CI 0, 2) and six (95% CI 2, 8) myocarditis events per 1 million people vaccinated with ChAdOx1, BNT162b2 and mRNA-1273, respectively, in the 28 days following a first dose and an extra ten (95% CI 7, 11) myocarditis events per 1 million vaccinated in the 28 days after a second dose of mRNA-1273. This compares with an extra 40 (95% CI 38, 41) myocarditis events per 1 million patients in the 28 days following a SARS-CoV-2 positive test."

What's bigger, an extra 2, 6, 10 ... or an extra 40?
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🙄🤦‍♂️🤣
 
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#18,333
#18,333
kiddiedoc said:
I don't know of any connection between Dr. McCullough (or the other authors) and Fox News. I do know that he has been a proponent of early, affordable treatment and has serious concerns about vaccine safety.

As for the list, I would generally agree with all of those statements.
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Fascinating.

I don’t know what McCullough’s connection to Fox is, if any. It was on one of their programs that he made the statement that the delta variant was not responsive to the vaccines and that they didn’t provide any protection. Maybe you agree with that, too.
 
#18,334
#18,334
#18,335
#18,335
RockyTop85 said:
Fascinating.

I don’t know what McCullough’s connection to Fox is, if any. It was on one of their programs that he made the statement that the delta variant was not responsive to the vaccines and that they didn’t provide any protection. Maybe you agree with that, too.
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I do not
 
#18,338
#18,338
kiddiedoc said:
106
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You are too cute, love. Why don't you tell your drooling acolytes on here what scenario 3 was--and by the way, it's a model, not real world empirical data -- and whether scenario 3 matches current reality. If scenario 3 is what it appears to be, you are in fact pushing misinformation because it's a reality that is not anywhere close to this world's current reality.

"Scenario 3 (The Lowest COVID-19 Incidence) COVID cases are 5% and Hospitalizations are 10% of September 11, 2021"

In other words, it's looking at the risks of widespread COVID vaccination when there's very little COVID spreading. Gosh, surprise surprise, in that situation there may be more myocarditis from vaccination than COVID.

https://www.fda.gov/media/153507/download
 
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#18,339
#18,339
evillawyer said:
You are too cute, love. Why don't you tell your drooling acolytes on here what scenario 3 was--and by the way, it's a model, not real world empirical data -- and whether scenario 3 matches current reality. If scenario 3 is what it appears to be, you are in fact pushing misinformation because it's a reality that is not anywhere close to this world's current reality.

"Scenario 3 (The Lowest COVID-19 Incidence) COVID cases are 5% and Hospitalizations are 10% of September 11, 2021"

In other words, it's looking at the risks of widespread COVID vaccination when there's very little COVID spreading. Gosh, surprise surprise, in that situation there may be more myocarditis from vaccination than COVID.

https://www.fda.gov/media/153507/download
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I know charts are hard to read, sweetheart, but can you make out the number "179"? That's the cases per million of myocarditis in young males.

For simplicity, if we vaccinated all the kids in Knoxville, we could expect about 20 cases of myocarditis.

Deaths to date? Zero
 
#18,341
#18,341
kiddiedoc said:
I know charts are hard to read, sweetheart, but can you make out the number "179"? That's the cases per million of myocarditis in young males.

For simplicity, if we vaccinated all the kids in Knoxville, we could expect about 20 cases of myocarditis.

Deaths to date? Zero
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Any comment on why you're pumping scenario 3, or you just gonna let that one pass?

Regardless, your example is one from MODELS. The recent real world data show a higher rate of incidence of myocarditis from COVID than vaccinations.
 
#18,342
#18,342
kiddiedoc said:
I know charts are hard to read, sweetheart, but can you make out the number "179"? That's the cases per million of myocarditis in young males.

For simplicity, if we vaccinated all the kids in Knoxville, we could expect about 20 cases of myocarditis.

Deaths to date? Zero
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Lemme know if you wanna keep this debate going? Don't know if these guys I'm citing can compete with the rural pediatrician known best for predicting that we were on the cusp of herd immunity in July 2020.

The Benefits of Vaccinating Kids against COVID Far Outweigh the Risks of Myocarditis
 
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#18,345
#18,345
kiddiedoc said:
Naw, you're smarter and more experienced than me.

Yippee ki yo.
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Really, I don't come on here and fib about what SCOTUS cases say, or the elements of some legal claim. Why do you come on here and push antivax BS? You know full well that the benefits of vaccination far outstrip the risks. Now you may think that even if the benefits outstrip the risks in younger age groups, the absolute risk for kids is just not that high and vaxxing them not that pressing. That's at least a tenable position to take. But don't argue that myocarditis from vaccination is some grave risk for kids that outweighs the benefits of vaccination when the data clearly shows that that is not the case.
 
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#18,346
#18,346
evillawyer said:
Really, I don't come on here and fib about what SCOTUS cases say, or the elements of some legal claim. Why do you come on here and push antivax BS? You know full well that the benefits of vaccination far outstrip the risks. Now you may think that even if the benefits outstrip the risks in younger age groups, the absolute risk for kids is just not that high and vaxxing them not that pressing. That's at least a tenable position to take. But don't argue that myocarditis from vaccination is some grave risk for kids that outweighs the benefits of vaccination when the data clearly shows that that is not the case.
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😳

AAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

You make ish up here continually while you try to sound like a lawyer, paralegal cat lady. 🤡
 
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#18,347
#18,347
evillawyer said:
Really, I don't come on here and fib about what SCOTUS cases say, or the elements of some legal claim. Why do you come on here and push antivax BS? You know full well that the benefits of vaccination far outstrip the risks. Now you may think that even if the benefits outstrip the risks in younger age groups, the absolute risk for kids is just not that high and vaxxing them not that pressing. That's at least a tenable position to take. But don't argue that myocarditis from vaccination is some grave risk for kids that outweighs the benefits of vaccination when the data clearly shows that that is not the case.
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Because you are 100% wrong, for the young healthy population.

You've caught me in a bit of a mood, so here goes:

I've taken care of about 1,200 kids with COVID. YOU?

ZERO deaths in kids our entire area in two years.

Flu cases have been significantly worse than CV cases.

Several of my patients have attempted suicide, one overdosed, and I can't find psychiatric care for anyone, thanks to this ********.

The only local myocarditis hospitalization has been vaccine induced.

My wife is dealing with a serious vaccine adverse event, as have several of my patient's mothers.

Your "rural pediatrician" just happens to take care of a number of other pediatricians', specialists', and nurses' kids, and several have come to me due to the insane handling of this crap.

Oh, and 24 hours after my first ivermectin dose, I'm about 100% recovered from NuWuFlu. So how about you GFY.
 
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#18,349
#18,349
evillawyer said:
Really, I don't come on here and fib about what SCOTUS cases say, or the elements of some legal claim. Why do you come on here and push antivax BS? You know full well that the benefits of vaccination far outstrip the risks. Now you may think that even if the benefits outstrip the risks in younger age groups, the absolute risk for kids is just not that high and vaxxing them not that pressing. That's at least a tenable position to take. But don't argue that myocarditis from vaccination is some grave risk for kids that outweighs the benefits of vaccination when the data clearly shows that that is not the case.
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Hm to agree I need you to provide both 5 and 10 year data on covid shots and Autoimmune associations, Neuro tissue damage, Chronic inflammation, Myocardial damage, Any damage associated with clotting and clotting disorders and endothelial dysfunction. Can you whip that up?
 
#18,350
#18,350
NurseGoodVol said:
Hm to agree I need you to provide both 5 and 10 year data on covid shots and Autoimmune associations, Neuro tissue damage, Chronic inflammation, Myocardial damage, Any damage associated with clotting and clotting disorders and endothelial dysfunction. Can you whip that up?
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And which vaccines have had serious and widespread side effects first appear more than a year after being vaxxed?
 
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