Vaccine or not?

[GroverCleveland]

Someone once tried to argue on here why the vaccine should be mandatory, using the fact that we still require Tetanus shots and how “deadly” is Tetanus. Well Tetanus has a mortality rate as “low” as 6% in mild to moderate cases and as high as 60% in avert cases. 50% of cases occur in children under 5. 6% alone is enough to justify having my 4 yr old vaccinated against Tetanus. Contrast that with his Covid odds around 0.005%.

Not to mention the fact that Tetanus is a bacterial infection. Nothing to do with a virus.

 

[GroverCleveland]

Exaggerated or not, it's real. I know a guy who's been in a wheelchair four months from it, and he was in good shape before.

I know a guy who died in a car wreck. From covid!

 

[GroverCleveland]

All of us unvaxxed people that had COVID and recovered with no lasting impact (if we even had symptoms at all) are actually all dead and sharing a collective fever dream.

Yeah, Been dead here for months. Planning on voting Democrat this year for the first time since I was born.

 

[AthensVol2007]

It's irrelevant as to whether viruses weaken over time.

Actually it is to a degree. Since a virus needs a host to survive the more or quicker it kills off hosts, it’s likely that it either dies out quicker or the quicker it mutates to weaken itself to continue replication.

 

[AthensVol2007]

Exaggerated or not, it's real. I know a guy who's been in a wheelchair four months from it, and he was in good shape before.

Cool, you have an anecdote. And I know hundreds that are fine. Who’s anecdote is right?

 

[Orange_Vol1321]

The shot's free and gives you a much lower risk of death or serious sickness. What are the mortality and hospitalization rates for unvaccinated people who catch it? Those hospital bills are wicked and long COVID is a bitch.

I had covid, no hosptal bill and no long covid. And this shot isn't free. Everyone, their kids, and their kids kids will be paying for all of this for a long time.

 

[Orange_Vol1321]

Yeah, Been dead here for months. Planning on voting Democrat this year for the first time since I was born.

 

[IluvdoubleD's]

Because I belong to nobody and I can. I can even make myself look bad. No problems. I don't care about likes.

 

[apevol]

Because I belong to nobody and I can. I can even make myself look bad. No problems. I don't care about likes.

you don't make yourself look bad, you just confuse the **** out of everything within a 5 mile radius

 

[DC_Vol]

Answer an honest question(s), why is Pfizer in the midst of crafting an omicron specific vaccine that they hope to bring to market by March if the original is so “effective” against Omicron? Who would line up to take another shot with 5 months, tops, worth of evaluation behind it (seeing as how we discovered omicron like 2 months ago)?

And WRT to the first vaccine, if it was so well studied and researched, how come there wasn’t a stated vaccine regimen up front…before you took the first shot?

 

[AthensVol2007]

I had covid, no hosptal bill and no long covid. And this shot isn't free. Everyone, their kids, and their kids kids will be paying for all of this for a long time.

The vaxxed are under this media-induced assumption that the majority of unvaxxed individuals either have long term effects, wound up in a hospital or wished they were dead they were so ill. They can’t bring themselves to acknowledge that an overwhelming % of the infected were and are just fine. They were told the two experiences should’ve been vastly different so it’s inconceivable that they’re not.

 

[C-south]

Because I belong to nobody and I can. I can even make myself look bad. No problems. I don't care about likes.

If you didn't care you wouldn't have brought it up.

 

[clarksvol00]

My theory is that they are worried that eventually the whole "FDA Approved vaccine isn't available" thing will come to light, so they need a new EUA version that won't have an alternative.

Speaking of EUA, I'm still a little confused on our conversation last week. The current vaccine distributed in the US is under the EUA and not the approved version. Is that just because it is not being labeled distributed under the name Cominarty or is the actual vaccine that goes into your arm a different formula than Cominarty?

 

[Matt2496]

North Carolina man would rather 'die free' than get vaccine needed for life-saving transplant

Stories like this are happening right on our doorstep. I’m getting sick of people being denied medical care over a vaccine that doesn’t even prevent you from catching a 99% survival rate virus.

 

[kiddiedoc]

Speaking of EUA, I'm still a little confused on our conversation last week. The current vaccine distributed in the US is under the EUA and not the approved version. Is that just because it is not being labeled distributed under the name Cominarty or is the actual vaccine that goes into your arm a different formula than Cominarty?

It is a legally distict product, and there is no information on differences in formulation. Pfizer VERY CLEARLY distinguishes the two on their website, only stating that they "can be used interchangeably without safety or efficacy concerns."

 

[evillawyer]

Answer an honest question(s), why is Pfizer in the midst of crafting an omicron specific vaccine that they hope to bring to market by March if the original is so “effective” against Omicron? Who would line up to take another shot with 5 months, tops, worth of evaluation behind it (seeing as how we discovered omicron like 2 months ago)?

(1) The current vaccine was designed to work against the original coronavirus. That particular virus is pretty much no longer circulating, having been outcompeted by beta, delta, and now omicron.

(2) The current vaccine, while it still does a great job of protecting against hospitalization and death from omicron infections, especially when people are boosted, does not do a great job of outright preventing omicron infection.

(3) Given how well omicron had outcompeted the other variants, any future strain of the virus will likely come from the omicron lineage.

(4) Given 1-3, you want a vaccine geared more to omicron (and it's future variants from that lineage) because such a new formulation could both prevent severe disease (which the current vax is doing well at) and prevent infection.

 

[evillawyer]

 

[AthensVol2007]

(1) The current vaccine was designed to work against the original coronavirus. That particular virus is pretty much no longer circulating, having been outcompeted by beta, delta, and now omicron.

(2) The current vaccine, while it still does a great job of protecting against hospitalization and death from omicron infections, especially when people are boosted, does not do a great job of outright preventing omicron infection.

(3) Given how well omicron had outcompeted the other variants, any future strain of the virus will likely come from the omicron lineage.

(4) Given 1-3, you want a vaccine geared more to omicron (and it's future variants from that lineage) because such a new formulation could both prevent severe disease (which the current vax is doing well at) and prevent infection.

So given your own answers for 1-3 why should anyone who’s unvaxxed (especially with natural immunity) get it at this point for a variant that behaves differently? I’ll let @kiddiedoc refute, confirm or add nuance to my postulation that the vaccine was geared entirely towards the spike protein and coincidentally or biologically the mutations we’ve seen have all been centered around the spike protein. Maybe a mass vaccination campaign focused on one piece of a virus wasn’t the right move and counterproductive.

 

[evillawyer]

So given your own answers for 1-3 why should anyone who’s unvaxxed (especially with natural immunity) get it at this point for a variant that behaves differently? I’ll let @kiddiedoc refute, confirm or add nuance to my postulation that the vaccine was geared entirely towards the spike protein and coincidentally or biologically the mutations we’ve seen have all been centered around the spike protein. Maybe a mass vaccination campaign focused on one piece of a virus wasn’t the right move and counterproductive.

Because it still prevents severe disease, hospitalization, and death really well.

 

[C-south]

Because it still prevents severe disease, hospitalization, and death really well.

No it doesn’t.

 

[AthensVol2007]

Because it still prevents severe disease, hospitalization, and death really well.

How if the virus evades the vaccine, as the CEO of Pfizer admitted, does it prevent those things? Omicron is weak as hell regardless of vaccination status on healthy individuals but you keep clutching to the notion it’s because of your shots.

 

[WBO]

Yes you saying someone should die because you disagree with their opinion does make you a horrible person

No, i am not wishing they would die because they disagree with my "opinion." It's because they risk other peoples lives by refusing to be vexed or wear a mask. Those people say innocent persons should risk death because brain dead narcissists believe their right to go unmasked and unvaccinated trumps the innocents ability to live. Those kind of people can die and I won't miss them.

OK how about this, if you go unvaxxed and unmasked and you catch it, you don't risk the lives of heath are workers by going to the hospital. Just sit at home and take your horse dewormer. But no, most of the nutcases start begging for the vaccine once they're in the ICU looking the grim reaper in the eyes.

Go to antivaxxer.com. He posts the facebook and twitter posts from people who were anti-vaxxers and then caught it and had to go on the respirators. There are some who go down with their beliefs to the last breath. I can respect that, it's stupid, but they stuck with their position. But most either want to blame someone else, want God to save them (I can respect that religious commitment as well) or beg for the vaccine.

 

[kiddiedoc]

So given your own answers for 1-3 why should anyone who’s unvaxxed (especially with natural immunity) get it at this point for a variant that behaves differently? I’ll let @kiddiedoc refute, confirm or add nuance to my postulation that the vaccine was geared entirely towards the spike protein and coincidentally or biologically the mutations we’ve seen have all been centered around the spike protein. Maybe a mass vaccination campaign focused on one piece of a virus wasn’t the right move and counterproductive.

Correct, the mRNA sequence encodes only for a portion of spike protein, but no other parts of the virus. And, yes, this narrow/uber-specific coverage worried a good number of us from the beginning. Antibodies targeting only a single short sequence would not be difficult for a rapidly-mutating virus to escape.

 

[AthensVol2007]

No, i am not wishing they would die because they disagree with my "opinion." It's because they risk other peoples lives by refusing to be vexed or wear a mask. Those people say innocent persons should risk death because brain dead narcissists believe their right to go unmasked and unvaccinated trumps the innocents ability to live. Those kind of people can die and I won't miss them.

OK how about this, if you go unvaxxed and unmasked and you catch it, you don't risk the lives of heath are workers by going to the hospital. Just sit at home and take your horse dewormer. But no, most of the nutcases start begging for the vaccine once they're in the ICU looking the grim reaper in the eyes.

Go to antivaxxer.com. He posts the facebook and twitter posts from people who were anti-vaxxers and then caught it and had to go on the respirators. There are some who go down with their beliefs to the last breath. I can respect that, it's stupid, but they stuck with their position. But most either want to blame someone else, want God to save them (I can respect that religious commitment as well) or beg for the vaccine.

Poor guy, you still think the vaccines prevent transmission and infection. Does someone want to tell him it’s January 2022 now and that was so May 2021?

 

[kiddiedoc]

Poor guy, you still think the vaccines prevent transmission and infection. Does someone want to tell him it’s January 2022 now and that was so May 2021?

I was going to mention the "unmasked" comment. I guess he hasn't tuned in to see the crowds at the multiple excellent sporting events today nor read the CDC's latest admission that these silly face diapers are basically useless.