Vaccine or not?

#19,376
#19,376
BowlBrother85 said:
There were numerous caveats to that conclusion, which were detailed within that link you posted. The one sentence which you posted is a gross over-simplification of the information included in that article. Your conduct on this forum is highly unprofessional. In support of a tribal political agenda, you are misrepresenting research and framing an argument in opposition to vaccines based on deliberately misleading partial information. You are foul and disgusting.
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Being ugly and calling people names is El’s thing. Be less like El.
 
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#19,380
#19,380
My brother followed anti-vax so-called information. When I told him that I had taken the first two shots, he reacted as if I were doomed to suffer debilitating consequences from bad science of nefarious forces. I told him that I had researched the mRNA vaccines and then discussed the answers to concerns I had about them. The short of it was that I did not entirely trust the vaccines being 100% safe, but the odds of consequential side effects appeared to be far less than the effects of Covid in unvaccinated persons. My belief was that I was much safer with the vaccination than without the vaccination. He remained concerned for me and also interested in my reporting the future health problems which he expected me to suffer from the vaccine. Today, my brother is fighting for his life against Covid, which he got by caring for his girlfriend until she was finally diagnosed with Covid and hospitalized. His denial led to high exposure to the virus. I don't know if he will live or die. If he survives, there might be serious, long term effects. In the mean time, my other brother and I are struggling to work out a plan to provide care without exposing ourselves as he exposed himself, while caring for his girlfriend. It seems impossible to do. Covid hospitalizations wipe out life savings, but even if that weren't the case, his distrust of the medical profession would still prevent his seeking medical care. I just want to say something to all of the ignorant and defiant individuals who spread this disease by refusing to wear masks and take the vaccinations, but I am not going to say what I'm thinking about you. I want to. I really want to, but I'm not going to say what I think about you. It's that bad.
 
#19,381
#19,381
Vol Main said:
My brother followed anti-vax so-called information. When I told him that I had taken the first two shots, he reacted as if I were doomed to suffer debilitating consequences from bad science of nefarious forces. I told him that I had researched the mRNA vaccines and then discussed the answers to concerns I had about them. The short of it was that I did not entirely trust the vaccines being 100% safe, but the odds of consequential side effects appeared to be far less than the effects of Covid in unvaccinated persons. My belief was that I was much safer with the vaccination than without the vaccination. He remained concerned for me and also interested in my reporting the future health problems which he expected me to suffer from the vaccine. Today, my brother is fighting for his life against Covid, which he got by caring for his girlfriend until she was finally diagnosed with Covid and hospitalized. His denial led to high exposure to the virus. I don't know if he will live or die. If he survives, there might be serious, long term effects. In the mean time, my other brother and I are struggling to work out a plan to provide care without exposing ourselves as he exposed himself, while caring for his girlfriend. It seems impossible to do. Covid hospitalizations wipe out life savings, but even if that weren't the case, his distrust of the medical profession would still prevent his seeking medical care. I just want to say something to all of the ignorant and defiant individuals who spread this disease by refusing to wear masks and take the vaccinations, but I am not going to say what I'm thinking about you. I want to. I really want to, but I'm not going to say what I think about you. It's that bad.
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Hate to hear this about your brother. What's his age? What underling conditions?
You do know the CDC said paper and cloth masks don't work, correct?
 
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#19,382
#19,382
Orange_Vol1321 said:
Hate to hear this about your brother. What's his age? What underling conditions?
You do know the CDC said paper and cloth masks don't work, correct?
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At seventy years old, he was in very good health. I think that you are taking something said by CDC as totally negative, when it was not intended as such. Masks are not 100% effective. Nobody ever pretended that they were. But an infected person who wears a mask releases a far lower viral load into the surrounding air, because the virus piggy-backs on water vapor in exhaled breath that gets caught in the mask..
 
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#19,383
#19,383
Orange_Vol1321 said:
Hate to hear this about your brother. What's his age? What underling conditions?
You do know the CDC said paper and cloth masks don't work, correct?
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A quick check of their website, updated 28 January, shows the following under 'Types of Masks and Respirators':
  • Masking is a critical public health tool for preventing spread of COVID-19, and it is important to remember that any mask is better than no mask.
  • To protect yourself and others from COVID-19, CDC continues to recommend that you wear the most protective mask you can that fits well and that you will wear consistently.
  • Masks and respirators are effective at reducing transmission of SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, when worn consistently and correctly.
 
#19,384
#19,384
Ok so we’re rotating back to the start and claiming that wearing your old used drawers on your face is effective? Sounds legit 🤡
 
#19,385
#19,385
EasternVol said:
A quick check of their website, updated 28 January, shows the following under 'Types of Masks and Respirators':
  • Masking is a critical public health tool for preventing spread of COVID-19, and it is important to remember that any mask is better than no mask.
  • To protect yourself and others from COVID-19, CDC continues to recommend that you wear the most protective mask you can that fits well and that you will wear consistently.
  • Masks and respirators are effective at reducing transmission of SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, when worn consistently and correctly.
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Except studies have shown there is statistically no difference between areas with and without mask mandates.

The CDC also changed their definition of “vaccination.”
 
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#19,386
#19,386
Vol Main said:
At seventy years old, he was in very good health. I think that you are taking something said by CDC as totally negative, when it was not intended as such. Masks are not 100% effective. Nobody ever pretended that they were. But an infected person who wears a mask releases a far lower viral load into the surrounding air, because the virus piggy-backs on water vapor in exhaled breath that gets caught in the mask..
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No. The paper and cloth masks are open on both sides, top and bottom. Not stopping anything airborne. A mask would need to be a respirator that seals to the face and has the correct filters to stop a virus sphere of this micron size.

I hope your brother gets to feeling better.
 
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#19,387
#19,387
EasternVol said:
A quick check of their website, updated 28 January, shows the following under 'Types of Masks and Respirators':
  • Masking is a critical public health tool for preventing spread of COVID-19, and it is important to remember that any mask is better than no mask.
  • To protect yourself and others from COVID-19, CDC continues to recommend that you wear the most protective mask you can that fits well and that you will wear consistently.
  • Masks and respirators are effective at reducing transmission of SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, when worn consistently and correctly.
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Comparing a paper or cloth mask to a respirator is disingenuous of the CDC and is like comparing apples to oranges.
 
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#19,388
#19,388
Vol Main said:
My brother followed anti-vax so-called information. When I told him that I had taken the first two shots, he reacted as if I were doomed to suffer debilitating consequences from bad science of nefarious forces. I told him that I had researched the mRNA vaccines and then discussed the answers to concerns I had about them. The short of it was that I did not entirely trust the vaccines being 100% safe, but the odds of consequential side effects appeared to be far less than the effects of Covid in unvaccinated persons. My belief was that I was much safer with the vaccination than without the vaccination. He remained concerned for me and also interested in my reporting the future health problems which he expected me to suffer from the vaccine. Today, my brother is fighting for his life against Covid, which he got by caring for his girlfriend until she was finally diagnosed with Covid and hospitalized. His denial led to high exposure to the virus. I don't know if he will live or die. If he survives, there might be serious, long term effects. In the mean time, my other brother and I are struggling to work out a plan to provide care without exposing ourselves as he exposed himself, while caring for his girlfriend. It seems impossible to do. Covid hospitalizations wipe out life savings, but even if that weren't the case, his distrust of the medical profession would still prevent his seeking medical care. I just want to say something to all of the ignorant and defiant individuals who spread this disease by refusing to wear masks and take the vaccinations, but I am not going to say what I'm thinking about you. I want to. I really want to, but I'm not going to say what I think about you. It's that bad.
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Except you still can spread Covid even if wearing masks or having been vaccinated
 
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#19,389
#19,389
Orange_Vol1321 said:
No. The paper and cloth masks are open on both sides, top and bottom. Not stopping anything airborne. A mask would need to be a respirator that seals to the face and has the correct filters to stop a virus sphere of this micron size.

I hope your brother gets to feeling better.
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As referenced from the start of the pandemic, there have been many studies over the past decades demonstrating the ineffectiveness of cloth and surgical masks at limiting the transmission or acquisition of respiratory (most notably, influenza) viruses. CV19 is roughly the same size and transmits in the same fashion.

You can also look now at schools, areas, restaurants, countries, etc with and without mask mandates and differing rates of mask usage to see that they had a negligible, if any, effect.

And, before anyone starts with the "science" BS, we were all taught in medical school and training that the above was true, and there were no magical overnight studies done in March 2020.
 
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#19,390
#19,390
Vol Main said:
At seventy years old, he was in very good health. I think that you are taking something said by CDC as totally negative, when it was not intended as such. Masks are not 100% effective. Nobody ever pretended that they were. But an infected person who wears a mask releases a far lower viral load into the surrounding air, because the virus piggy-backs on water vapor in exhaled breath that gets caught in the mask..
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First, I hope that your brother makes a turn for the better and has a full recovery.

Second, why would a sick/infected person be out spreading virus? Symptomatic individuals with cough/flu like symptoms should be at home, not out in public wearing a cloth or paper mask. That's very irresponsible and nothing more than a false sense of security.
 
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#19,391
#19,391
Pandemic response quagmire reminds me of a CS Lewis quote:

“We all want progress. But progress means getting nearer to the place where you want to be. And if you have taken a wrong turning then to go forward does not get you any nearer. If you are on the wrong road progress means doing an about-turn and walking back to the right road and in that case the man who turns back soonest is the most progressive man. There is nothing progressive about being pig-headed and refusing to admit a mistake. And I think if you look at the present state of the world it's pretty plain that humanity has been making some big mistake. We're on the wrong road. And if that is so we must go back. Going back is the quickest way on.”
 
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#19,392
#19,392
newyorkvol said:
Pandemic response quagmire reminds me of a CS Lewis quote:

“We all want progress. But progress means getting nearer to the place where you want to be. And if you have taken a wrong turning then to go forward does not get you any nearer. If you are on the wrong road progress means doing an about-turn and walking back to the right road and in that case the man who turns back soonest is the most progressive man. There is nothing progressive about being pig-headed and refusing to admit a mistake. And I think if you look at the present state of the world it's pretty plain that humanity has been making some big mistake. We're on the wrong road. And if that is so we must go back. Going back is the quickest way on.”
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I think that was his best quote.
 
#19,393
#19,393
newyorkvol said:
Pandemic response quagmire reminds me of a CS Lewis quote:

“We all want progress. But progress means getting nearer to the place where you want to be. And if you have taken a wrong turning then to go forward does not get you any nearer. If you are on the wrong road progress means doing an about-turn and walking back to the right road and in that case the man who turns back soonest is the most progressive man. There is nothing progressive about being pig-headed and refusing to admit a mistake. And I think if you look at the present state of the world it's pretty plain that humanity has been making some big mistake. We're on the wrong road. And if that is so we must go back. Going back is the quickest way on.”
Click to expand...
One of my favorites of his passages.
 
#19,394
#19,394
Oregon reports 33 more COVID-19 related deaths, one from Deschutes County; 4,872 cases - KTVZ

Somehow came across this story from Oregon. Look how they list who is in the ICU or hospitals. No where in the story do they say unvaccinated.

Screenshot_20220206-124706_Chrome.jpg

Then I seen this on down. This says they're giving Comirnaty and that Pfizer even has one labeled Pediatric.

Screenshot_20220206-124742_Chrome.jpg

When you scroll on down to cases and deaths, all of them are listed as having underlying conditions or that underlying conditions are being confirmed.
 
#19,397
#19,397
MG1968 said:
Except studies have shown there is statistically no difference between areas with and without mask mandates.

The CDC also changed their definition of “vaccination.”
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Probably because people don't follow the mandates.
Edit: should say maybe because people don't follow the mandates
 
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