Vaccine or not?

#19,326
#19,326
utvolpj said:
It's not splitting hairs to ask the poster to back their claim that
it is a completely separate claim than the other being discussed

Because, based on recent hospitalization data, if that's true then it gives support to the claim that the vax reduces serious illness. That would be inconvenient
Click to expand...
So now you just inserted “serious illness” in the discussion? So you’re even shifting the discussion away from your original ask?
 
  • Like
Reactions: norrislakevol
#19,327
#19,327
ButchPlz said:
The updated requirements to re-enter the country show they don't believe the vaccines prevent spread, as well, as now both vaccinated and un-vaccinated Americans returning to the US have the same negative testing requirements.

Then you have: Israeli Hospital: 4th Vaccination Does Not Prevent Spread of Omicron

Omicron thwarts some of the world’s most-used COVID vaccines

Can fully vaccinated people spread the omicron variant to others? What the CDC says

So the brainlet saying vaccinated don't spread COVID is spreading misinformation. Shouldn't he he banned?
Click to expand...
PJ just inserted a twist whether he did it intentionally or not. As has been posted by the CDC the vaccine doesn’t necessarily reduce the risk of spread but there is a lot of data showing severity is lessened across all the variants with the vaccine. This as another posted stated this is no longer a general health choice affecting the population in the aggregate it’s a personal health choice on how you want to manage risk of severity.

BTW they call those therapeutics not vaccines.
 
  • Like
Reactions: norrislakevol, NurseGoodVol, Orange_Vol1321 and 1 other person
#19,328
#19,328
ButchPlz said:
The updated requirements to re-enter the country show they don't believe the vaccines prevent spread, as well, as now both vaccinated and un-vaccinated Americans returning to the US have the same negative testing requirements.

Then you have: Israeli Hospital: 4th Vaccination Does Not Prevent Spread of Omicron

Omicron thwarts some of the world’s most-used COVID vaccines

Can fully vaccinated people spread the omicron variant to others? What the CDC says

So the brainlet saying vaccinated don't spread COVID is spreading misinformation. Shouldn't he he banned?
Click to expand...
Oh and hope you had a great trip! Welcome back to the asylum that is the USA!
 
#19,333
#19,333
kiddiedoc said:
PJ, there isn't any data demonstrating that in the U.S. yet, but vaccinated people do appear just as likely as unvaccinated people to catch and transmit the new strain. Honestly, it's basically a different virus, and they really should rename the strain to avoid confusion. Prior antibodies don't neutralize it, it isn't nearly as aggressive, and many of the weird effects aren't happening at anywhere close to the prior rate (MIS, cytokine storm, lung inflammation, loss of smell).

However, data from other highly vaccinated countries (see: Israel) is quite alarming. In some cases, it appears that more boosters actually has an opposite effect on protection. Very strange. There has been a theory proposed of "numbing" the immune system/T cells.
Click to expand...
Thanks. I would still caution that if hospitalization rates are 50/50 then it seems the unvax are still more susceptible. Given what has gone thru our house in the past month I'm not sure that's really too alarming
 
#19,334
#19,334
utvolpj said:
I didn't but it seems you were never going to address that point and keep pretending as if I asked another question. It's ok, everyone saw you
Click to expand...
LMAO ok Mr Danth. You’re lack of continuity in your diatribe is your own damn fault.

But if you really want to hear the answer on your last twist, yes I think there is plenty of info saying the vaccine lowers the risk of severe illness. However it clearly isn’t as effective at preventing the spread of omicron. That is why I’m vaxed but not boosted and intend to stay that way unless my wife threatens me again.
 
#19,335
#19,335
NorthDallas40 said:
LMAO ok Mr Danth. You’re lack of continuity in your diatribe is your own damn fault.

But if you really want to hear the answer on your last twist, yes I think there is plenty of info saying the vaccine lowers the risk of severe illness. However it clearly isn’t as effective at preventing the spread of omicron. That is why I’m vaxed bit not boosted and intend to stay that way unless my wife threatens me again.
Click to expand...
I was very consistent for several posts. Unfortunately you were as well in addressing anything I posted. There was no last twist I was simply extrapolating the data. Watching you avoid answering was tiresome
 
#19,336
#19,336
utvolpj said:
I was very consistent for several posts. Unfortunately you were as well in addressing anything I posted. There was no last twist I was simply extrapolating the data. Watching you avoid answering was tiresome
Click to expand...
You literally inserted the terminology “serious illness” where up to that point the focus was on the general spread or degree of difference in rate of spreading on different strains. It’s ok, everyone saw you.
 
#19,337
#19,337
NorthDallas40 said:
You literally inserted the terminology “serious illness” where up to that point the focus was on the general spread or degree of difference in rate of spreading on different strains. It’s ok, everyone saw you.
Click to expand...
No, the single question I asked was to prove the unvaccinated got it at a higher rate. You never dared to try and answer that. After at least a half dozen chances I simply moved on while you glommed on to some other point in an effort to deflect.

It's your style and you do it every day. You jump on a point no one is making then call them stupid and strut around like you've won a great debate. Every time
 
#19,339
#19,339
kiddiedoc said:
Haha, I think that's pretty much ALL of our houses, but no one wants to talk about that.
Click to expand...
Have you seen anything on omicron being less likely to provide a positive test? I took several that were neg but my wife saw no point.
 
#19,340
#19,340
utvolpj said:
No, the single question I asked was to prove the unvaccinated got it at a higher rate. You never dared to try and answer that. After at least a half dozen chances I simply moved on while you glommed on to some other point in an effort to deflect.

It's your style and you do it every day. You jump on a point no one is making then call them stupid and strut around like you've won a great debate. Every time
Click to expand...
What you did was insert yourself in the middle of a discussion with a whole different context of vaccine preventing the spread and insert your own ask. You then later modified that to “serious illness” which you have now dropped and reverted back. YOU are the one that jumped here genius not me. That’s your own damn fault.
 
#19,341
#19,341
NorthDallas40 said:
What you did was insert yourself in the middle of a discussion with a whole different context of vaccine preventing the spread and insert your own ask. You then later modified that to “serious illness” which you have now dropped and reverted back. YOU are the one that jumped here genius not me. That’s your own damn fault.
Click to expand...
There were 2 completely separate points presented and I simply asked for proof on one. You wouldn't answer and the person who posted it hasn't been back. The serious illness part you've now jumped on was irrelevant to the question you avoided
 
  • Like
Reactions: DuckInAPen
#19,342
#19,342
utvolpj said:
There were 2 completely separate points presented and I simply asked for proof on one. You wouldn't answer and the person who posted it hasn't been back. The serious illness part you've now jumped on was irrelevant to the question you avoided
Click to expand...
There were more than two! The poster in question was on a tear posting to all who would reply to get the jab. You’re own inference assumed he/she was parsing on a specific rate related to omicron. No he/she was calling out anybody and everybody questioning the rationale to not get the vaccine. That’s it!
 
#19,343
#19,343
utvolpj said:
Have you seen anything on omicron being less likely to provide a positive test? I took several that were neg but my wife saw no point.
Click to expand...
Not really. Mine was very positive literally 2 hours after I had any symptoms. Around half the tests we've been running at the office are positive. However, there have been several times when one sibling is positive and the other is negative, and they have the same symptoms, so who knows? I've just been treating the other as a "presumptive positive" and telling them to stay home and watch Disney+ for five days.
 
#19,344
#19,344
kiddiedoc said:
Not really. Mine was very positive literally 2 hours after I had any symptoms. Around half the tests we've been running at the office are positive. However, there have been several times when one sibling is positive and the other is negative, and they have the same symptoms, so who knows? I've just been treating the other as a "presumptive positive" and telling them to stay home and watch Disney+ for five days.
Click to expand...
So you made the comment that omicron is really like a separate virus now (if I read that correctly in passing that is). I’m assuming they’ve sequenced the omicron variant and can state exactly how much has mutated. Have you seen any such data?

I’m not claiming it’s the flu but if the mutation rate is that bad it sure damn behaves like the flu it seems.
 
#19,345
#19,345
NorthDallas40 said:
So you made the comment that omicron is really like a separate virus now (if I read that correctly in passing that is). I’m assuming they’ve sequenced the omicron variant and can state exactly how much has mutated. Have you seen any such data?

I’m not claiming it’s the flu but if the mutation rate is that bad it sure damn behaves like the flu it seems.
Click to expand...
Yes, they have sequenced it and the multiple changes, especially in the spike protein, are well described.
 
#19,346
#19,346
utvolpj said:
Have you seen anything on omicron being less likely to provide a positive test? I took several that were neg but my wife saw no point.
Click to expand...

The Omicron variant has four mutations in the nucleocapsid protein, although most antigen tests are still expected to detect Omicron. Although there is some concern that antigen tests may have lower sensitivity for the Omicron variant compared with other variants, available data do not clearly indicate that antigen tests should be employed differently when Omicron is prevalent.
Click to expand...

From UpToDate
 
  • Like
Reactions: NorthDallas40
#19,347
#19,347
kiddiedoc said:
Yes, they have sequenced it and the multiple changes, especially in the spike protein, are well described.
Click to expand...
Ok but they still specifically reference it as a variant of the same initial strain. I have no what the scientific criteria are to justify classification as a different virus but in reading on the flu they seem to point to it being a family of closely related viruses which result in the same basic illness? So it’s possible we’re headed that way? Great… get your yearly COVID shot when you get your yearly flu shot.
 
#19,349
#19,349
NorthDallas40 said:
So you made the comment that omicron is really like a separate virus now (if I read that correctly in passing that is). I’m assuming they’ve sequenced the omicron variant and can state exactly how much has mutated. Have you seen any such data?
Click to expand...


The variant contains over 30 mutations in the spike protein, including mutations that have been found in other variants of concern and that have been associated with increased transmissibility and decreased susceptibility to neutralizing antibodies (including therapeutic monoclonal antibodies).
Click to expand...
 
  • Like
Reactions: NorthDallas40
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top