Vaccine or not?

[OHvol40]

I dropped em already.

“Pushing” the vaccine was wrong. At any level.

Yeah, in the same way “pushing” a healthy diet is wrong. We still have plenty of morbidly obese patients rolling through though so personal choice is alive and well, no worries.

 

[GroverCleveland]

My generation lived through the smallpox and polio vaccination campaigns. So the Covvie-19 held no fear for me, wife and I are fully tri-vaccinated.. So are bunches of our friends. Negative reactions? First shot, my arm was sore for three days. Wife's arm for a week, plus hit with something like the 24hr flu. Friends? One had a reaction like my wife, all the others sore arms. The next two shots? Beyond the needle prick, nothing. Same with friends. Will I take the rumored 4th booster? Probably not, as I don't think I need it. I think the anti-vax folks are making a ballyhoo out of nothing, and a fair number of them are dead, and some still dying cause they followed pied piper Trump, who himself hypocritically got vaccinated, BTW. (1) (2)

The only thing I have ever heard Trump say about the vaccine was urging people to get it, so not sure I get why he is a hypocrite for getting it.

 

[85SugarVol]

Yeah, in the same way “pushing” a healthy diet is wrong. We still have plenty of morbidly obese patients rolling through though so personal choice is alive and well, no worries.

Should have a few less now, so you got that going for you.

 

[0nelilreb]

Again, this conversation had nothing to do with the CDC. You must be thinking of a different conversation.

Wait what ? Name one health organization that doesn’t quote / post the CDC guidelines and adhere to them . The CDC has everything to do with it and has from the beginning , it’s literally why they are fed funded .

 

[OHvol40]

Wait what ? Name one health organization that doesn’t quote / post the CDC guidelines and adhere to them . The CDC has everything to do with it and has from the beginning , it’s literally why they are fed funded .

You’re using the CDC to discredit the entire public health community. That’s like using the President to discredit everyone who represents the executive branch. It’s a silly idea, really.

 

[0nelilreb]

You’re using the CDC to discredit the entire public health community. That’s like using the President to discredit everyone who represents the executive branch. It’s a silly idea, really.

You side stepped what I asked you to do , I’ll settle for just one that doesn’t follow CDC guidelines , I’m not hard to please .

 

[OHvol40]

You side stepped what I asked you to do , I’ll settle for just one that doesn’t follow CDC guidelines , I’m not hard to please .

I don’t feed into redirection of a debate from it’s origins so you feel more comfortable with echoing warn out talking points. My conviction remains the same that locally based community health workers are dedicated and qualified people whose interest in their community’s well being should be largely unquestioned. They are not the problem nor your scapegoat, so keep searching elsewhere.

 

[0nelilreb]

I don’t feed into redirection of a debate from it’s origins so you feel more comfortable with echoing warn out talking points. My conviction remains the same that locally based community health workers are dedicated and qualified people whose interest in their community’s well being should be largely unquestioned. They are not the problem nor your scapegoat, so keep searching elsewhere.

I think I remember you saying that the CDC has nothing to do with it . There’s a reason why you won’t name one health provider that doesn’t follow CDC guidelines . Now as far as your conviction … nobody and I mean nobody should ever go largely unquestioned , EVER . I’ve seen the good and the bad ones , been around both and still hear about both everyday . The problem is , the public at large doesnt get to see and hear everything . You know this is true and factual as well as I do . Now let’s see how honest you are willing to be about it .

 

[OHvol40]

I think I remember you saying that the CDC has nothing to do with it . There’s a reason why you won’t name one health provider that doesn’t follow CDC guidelines . Now as far as your conviction … nobody and I mean nobody should ever go largely unquestioned , EVER . I’ve seen the good and the bad ones , been around both and still hear about both everyday . The problem is , the public at large doesnt get to see and hear everything . You know this is true and factual as well as I do . Now let’s see how honest you are willing to be about it .

We weren’t talking about providers, we were talking about the public health sector. Generally, they are regulated and informed by their state health departments, not the CDC.

I spent 5 months with city and county public health workers and can say, in my personal experience, were very well intentioned, knowledgeable, and committed. I’m not sure what you’re insinuating I need to be honest about, that’s about as honest as I can be.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

Yeah, in the same way “pushing” a healthy diet is wrong. We still have plenty of morbidly obese patients rolling through though so personal choice is alive and well, no worries.

Funny about pushing a healthy diet. Sort of like the medical establishment pushing that saturated fat is the cause of heart disease and eating massive amounts of carbohydrates and very little red meat is the healthiest way to eat? Just stop it already. Doctors do not get much training on how to eat healthy. And we know you have had even less training. A healthy diet is not a universal thing. I have seen people almost kill themselves eating vegan and vegetarian. Yet I know carnivores that have eaten nothing but fat and protein for decades who are models of health.

So pushing an experimental vaccine with unknown long term side effects was absolutely wrong.

 

[Weezy]

County health departments need to go away. I would do it tomorrow if I could. They shut down my daycare for two weeks over a single case. I called them, they said I should just pay someone....which, you know, is the whole point of daycare.

 

[OHvol40]

Funny about pushing a healthy diet. Sort of like the medical establishment pushing that saturated fat is the cause of heart disease and eating massive amounts of carbohydrates and very little red meat is the healthiest way to eat? Just stop it already. Doctors do not get much training on how to eat healthy. And we know you have had even less training. A healthy diet is not a universal thing. I have seen people almost kill themselves eating vegan and vegetarian. Yet I know carnivores that have eaten nothing but fat and protein for decades who are models of health.

So pushing an experimental vaccine with unknown long term side effects was absolutely wrong.

Haha, ok bubba. I’ve never heard anyone in the medical field claim “massive amounts of carbohydrates and very little red meat is the healthiest way to eat.”
In both of my nutrition courses I generally learned that a balanced diet is ideal, but can be customized to individual needs. I also learned that calories in vs calories out is the ultimate deciding factor in body mass. Oh and in the countless chemistry courses, biology courses, and nursing courses I took I learned how the body’s cells utilize numerous pathways to convert different nutrients into ATP to be utilized by the body for energy. I’m sure you could opine about the difference between glycolysis, the Kreb’s cycle, pyruvate oxidation, the pentose phosphate pathway, the urea cycle, fatty acid synthesis, and the difference between catabolic and anabolic pathways. I’m sure we would have a riveting discussion over tea and crumpets.
I would love to hear about everything you’ve learned and what you have to say on the matter.

 

[Sea Ray]

Haha, ok bubba. I’ve never heard anyone in the medical field claim “massive amounts of carbohydrates and very little red meat is the healthiest way to eat.”
In both of my nutrition courses I generally learned that a balanced diet is ideal, but can be customized to individual needs. I also learned that calories in vs calories out is the ultimate deciding factor in body mass. Oh and in the countless chemistry courses, biology courses, and nursing courses I took I learned how the body’s cells utilize numerous pathways to convert different nutrients into ATP to be utilized by the body for energy. I’m sure you could opine about the difference between glycolysis, the Kreb’s cycle, pyruvate oxidation, the pentose phosphate pathway, the urea cycle, fatty acid synthesis, and the difference between catabolic and anabolic pathways. I’m sure we would have a riveting discussion over tea and crumpets.
I would love to hear about everything you’ve learned and what you have to say on the matter.

Maybe you're not old enough to remember but in the late 1970s our food pyramid pushed carbohydrates and frowned on fats. This meant margarine instead of butter, low fat this and low fat that. Problem was the fat was generally replaced with carbohydrates. The result is a country full of diabetics. They'd have been much better off with fat than carbs.

In January 1977,

after listening to the testimony of Ancel Keys and other doctors and scientists intent on promoting the unsupported Dietary Fat-Heart hypothesis, the Committee published the "Dietary Goals for the United States" recommending that all Americans reduce their fat, saturated fat and cholesterol consumption, and increase their carbohydrate consumption to 55-60% of daily calories...

These included the Surgeon General’s Report on Nutrition and Health, and the National Research Council’s Diet and Health Report. Both reports were heavily influenced by the low fat proponents.
The USDA leaned heavily on these reports in the revision of its USDA Food Pyramid guidelines in the early 1990s. Interestingly, the actual graphic for the USDA food pyramid came from Sweden.

USDA Food Pyramid History

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

Haha, ok bubba. I’ve never heard anyone in the medical field claim “massive amounts of carbohydrates and very little red meat is the healthiest way to eat.”
In both of my nutrition courses I generally learned that a balanced diet is ideal, but can be customized to individual needs. I also learned that calories in vs calories out is the ultimate deciding factor in body mass. Oh and in the countless chemistry courses, biology courses, and nursing courses I took I learned how the body’s cells utilize numerous pathways to convert different nutrients into ATP to be utilized by the body for energy. I’m sure you could opine about the difference between glycolysis, the Kreb’s cycle, pyruvate oxidation, the pentose phosphate pathway, the urea cycle, fatty acid synthesis, and the difference between catabolic and anabolic pathways. I’m sure we would have a riveting discussion over tea and crumpets.
I would love to hear about everything you’ve learned and what you have to say on the matter.

I could easily go into all of that. But I know you wouldn’t understand it. You used Google for what you just said. You have proven time and time again that you know absolutely nothing when it comes to medical knowledge. This post reiterates that. Countless biology, chemistry and nursing courses you took? Just stop deluding yourself.

But I am sure you will continue to try and express Google medical knowledge and try to pass it off as knowledge gained from real world experiences. I love reading your feeble attempts. Please don’t ever stop.

Just a little tidbit though. Most physicians and registered dieticians will recommend a diet with plenty of fruits, vegetables, whole grains and lean meat. With very little saturated fat and red fatty meat. They will likely recommend low fat products as well as lower sodium products. The “healthy diet” will likely contain massive amounts of carbs in the form of bread, pasta, fruits and vegetables. None of which are needed for our bodies to function. Class is over.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

Maybe you're not old enough to remember but in the late 1970s our food pyramid pushed carbohydrates and frowned on fats. This meant margarine instead of butter, low fat this and low fat that. Problem was the fat was generally replaced with carbohydrates. The result is a country full of diabetics. They'd have been much better off with fat than carbs.



USDA Food Pyramid History

He doesn’t like facts.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

Interesting. Dr Flipflop clearly states “vaccines prevent getting infected, prevent getting sick and prevent hospitalization.” But the mouth breathers on here have said that’s not how vaccines work.

 

[WoodsmanVol]

The only thing I have ever heard Trump say about the vaccine was urging people to get it, so not sure I get why he is a hypocrite for getting it.

I think you're right. I can admit when I recognize I am wrong. He may not have explicitly discouraged taking vaccine. However, he made statements that implied such, and a number of his followers interpreted it that way as a result. The chloroquine incident I mentioned in my earlier post is an example, an extreme one to be frank, still...
{A man died after ingesting a substance he thought would protect him from coronavirus} The link below are examples o such statements.

Specifically, statements are listed by date: May 8 and May18.* Once again, in fairness, none of those listed statements has him saying don't take the vaccine. A good number of his supporters just interpreted it that way. And just as frankly, I saw it that way too. Now, here is where I expect to be damned beyond the damned, Obama did sit down with Trump prior to exiting the White House, and advised him to be careful about what he says. Because every word a President makes has power to impact people in either positive or negative ways. I dimly recall the CIA giving the same type of advice to Trump as well. My sincere hope is that as a nation, we finally and truthfully understand that the United States, doesn't mean the Divided states before it's too late and we find ourselves governed or dictated to by a foreign entity. Or even worse, a dictatorship.

Timeline of Trump's COVID-19 Comments - FactCheck.org

*Further Info: Trump Misleads on Hydroxychloroquine, Again - FactCheck.org

 

[LouderVol]

Remember when it was a good idea to give Pfizer and others blanket protection, thanks to Trump for that nugget. Well Pepperidge Farm remembers. It's a good thing Pfizer never has to recall anything.
Pfizer issues recall for blood pressure medications

Ooops.

 

[GroverCleveland]

I think you're right. I can admit when I recognize I am wrong. He may not have explicitly discouraged taking vaccine. However, he made statements that implied such, and a number of his followers interpreted it that way as a result. The chloroquine incident I mentioned in my earlier post is an example, an extreme one to be frank, still...
{A man died after ingesting a substance he thought would protect him from coronavirus} The link below are examples o such statements.

Specifically, statements are listed by date: May 8 and May18.* Once again, in fairness, none of those listed statements has him saying don't take the vaccine. A good number of his supporters just interpreted it that way. And just as frankly, I saw it that way too. Now, here is where I expect to be damned beyond the damned, Obama did sit down with Trump prior to exiting the White House, and advised him to be careful about what he says. Because every word a President makes has power to impact people in either positive or negative ways. I dimly recall the CIA giving the same type of advice to Trump as well. My sincere hope is that as a nation, we finally and truthfully understand that the United States, doesn't mean the Divided states before it's too late and we find ourselves governed or dictated to by a foreign entity. Or even worse, a dictatorship.

Timeline of Trump's COVID-19 Comments - FactCheck.org

*Further Info: Trump Misleads on Hydroxychloroquine, Again - FactCheck.org

it would have been a lot easier to just say “My statement about Trump being a hypocrite was not based on anything other than my dislike of Trump.”

But to address your insinuations, and you are not alone in this, that the predominate group that were against taking the jab were Trump followers, the group with one of, if not the lowest jab rate, were blacks, a group that I believe is more lock step with the self proclaimed “Party of Science” than any other.

You might have even been accurate to have added “I myself am nothing more than a sanctimonious hypocrite” after the diatribe about unity and the concurrent attacks against Trump and his followers.

 

[midnight orange]

I could easily go into all of that. But I know you wouldn’t understand it. You used Google for what you just said. You have proven time and time again that you know absolutely nothing when it comes to medical knowledge. This post reiterates that. Countless biology, chemistry and nursing courses you took? Just stop deluding yourself.

But I am sure you will continue to try and express Google medical knowledge and try to pass it off as knowledge gained from real world experiences. I love reading your feeble attempts. Please don’t ever stop.

Just a little tidbit though. Most physicians and registered dieticians will recommend a diet with plenty of fruits, vegetables, whole grains and lean meat. With very little saturated fat and red fatty meat. They will likely recommend low fat products as well as lower sodium products. The “healthy diet” will likely contain massive amounts of carbs in the form of bread, pasta, fruits and vegetables. None of which are needed for our bodies to function. Class is over.

If you follow the USDA MYPLATE you will end up round just like the plate.

 

[OHvol40]

I could easily go into all of that. But I know you wouldn’t understand it. You used Google for what you just said. You have proven time and time again that you know absolutely nothing when it comes to medical knowledge. This post reiterates that. Countless biology, chemistry and nursing courses you took? Just stop deluding yourself.

But I am sure you will continue to try and express Google medical knowledge and try to pass it off as knowledge gained from real world experiences. I love reading your feeble attempts. Please don’t ever stop.

Just a little tidbit though. Most physicians and registered dieticians will recommend a diet with plenty of fruits, vegetables, whole grains and lean meat. With very little saturated fat and red fatty meat. They will likely recommend low fat products as well as lower sodium products. The “healthy diet” will likely contain massive amounts of carbs in the form of bread, pasta, fruits and vegetables. None of which are needed for our bodies to function. Class is over.

I was going to embarrass you more, but why beat a dead horse?

 

[WoodsmanVol]

it would have been a lot easier to just say “My statement about Trump being a hypocrite was not based on anything other than my dislike of Trump.”

But to address your insinuations, and you are not alone in this, that the predominate group that were against taking the jab were Trump followers, the group with one of, if not the lowest jab rate, were blacks, a group that I believe is more lock step with the self proclaimed “Party of Science” than any other.
You might have even been accurate to have added “I myself am nothing more than a sanctimonious hypocrite” after the diatribe about unity and the concurrent attacks against Trump and his followers.

Well, there you go. Now, it's true I don't like Trump, but then again, I don't like Biden either. No, any politician in general. However, seeing that I dared to make an unflattering post about Trump sparked your pro-Trump chromosomes into insult mode and spitefulness, it's best we engage in no further discourse. It would have no point after all. It's OK, I expected as much, as it is something you will often see among cult members of all types. And that includes both cult figures and political party advocates. I am sorry that you lapsed into that category because i had started feeling you were someone I could have discourse with whether we agreed or not. My bad.

 

[GroverCleveland]

Well, there you go. Now, it's true I don't like Trump, but then again, I don't like Biden either. No, any politician in general. However, seeing that I dared to make an unflattering post about Trump sparked your pro-Trump chromosomes into insult mode and spitefulness, it's best we engage in no further discourse. It would have no point after all. It's OK, I expected as much, as it is something you will often see among cult members of all types. And that includes both cult figures and political party advocates. I am sorry that you lapsed into that category because i had started feeling you were someone I could have discourse with whether we agreed or not. My bad.

View attachment 441844

Well there you go. Doing exactly what you accuse me of doing. But since you did not ask before assuming, i will tell you I do not like Trump. I voted for him in the general elections because I hate what the Democratic Party seems to stand for. i think Hillary is a first class political crook and Biden is a moran of epic proportions. I think Trump did some good things policy wise. I am pissed with him and hope he does not run again because he could not stop being an a55hole long enough to win re-election and gave us this current cast of nincompoops in the White House.

I do not like Trump. But I dislike rectitudinous hypocrites even more. Good day, sir.

 

[WoodsmanVol]

Well there you go. Doing exactly what you accuse me of doing. But since you did not ask before assuming, i will tell you I do not like Trump. I voted for him in the general elections because I hate what the Democratic Party seems to stand for. i think Hillary is a first class political crook and Biden is a moran of epic proportions. I think Trump did some good things policy wise. I am pissed with him and hope he does not run again because he could not stop being an a55hole long enough to win re-election and gave us this current cast of nincompoops in the White House.
I do not like Trump. But I dislike rectitudinous hypocrites even more. Good day, sir.

добрый день

 

[NurseGoodVol]

Again, this conversation had nothing to do with the CDC. You must be thinking of a different conversation.

Were the public health officials not following the cdc guidance for 2 years?