Vaccine or not?

[utvolpj]

That was never stated. You're putting words in my mouth. I responded to his one specific statement. I don't follow who's who on here enough to know he is an innocent victim or not.

You said he was unfairly "called a conspiracy theorist and ridiculed" when he was actually spreading known lies. So yes it did change your point

 

[BigOrangeMojo]

The death jab is doing its job

So, a bigger guy has a heart attack and it's because of a vaccine he took the year before....

I assume bigger people did not die from heart attacks prior to 2021

 

[Ttucke11]

You said he was unfairly "called a conspiracy theorist and ridiculed" when he was actually spreading known lies. So yes it did change your point

I thought it was pretty clear I was using "you" as a general term for all the people affected. Myself included. So no, it didn't change my point. But I know you enjoy playing devil's advocate over everything.

 

[utvolpj]

So, a bigger guy has a heart attack and it's because of a vaccine he took the year before....

I assume bigger people did not die from heart attacks prior to 2021

That's the thing, attributing every death is no different than attributing no deaths. Hopefully the extremists run out of steam one day so a discussion can be had

 

[BigOrangeMojo]

Pre COVID, 500,000 people died annually from aneurysms globally....It's sad but this proves absolutely nothing.

 

[utvolpj]

I thought it was pretty clear I was using "you" as a general term for all the people affected. Myself included. So no, it didn't change my point. But I know you enjoy playing devil's advocate over everything.

It really wasn't clear when you addressed his concerns directly and even quoted the post and used parts from it. It was much more likely you were addressing him directly.

 

[Ttucke11]

It really wasn't clear when you addressed his concerns directly and even quoted the post and used parts from it. It was much more likely you were addressing him directly.

Ok. Well I wasn't. As if I was stating he was the only one affected...

 

[norrislakevol]

Study: Vaccinated 5X More Contagious Than the Unvaccinated 10 Days After SARS-CoV-2 Infection

"If this data holds true to larger populations, the vaccinated become the walking contagious compared to the unvaccinated. Moreover this study also perhaps better explains the Paxlovid effect of this issue."

Clip: Study: Vaccinated 5X More Contagious Than the Unvaccinated 10 Days After SARS-CoV-2 Infection

Study: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2202092

Nothing but bad news coming out about the jab recently it seems. This study, plus the studies of negative effectiveness after multiple jabs. Just goes to show that there will never, ever be an effective vaccine for a respiratory virus. They mutate too frequently.

 

[Ttucke11]

My biggest problem with it all is it showed people's true colors in a time of conflict. All the media platforms had to do was blast fear porn 24/7. People started wanting to strip others of their freedom of choice immediately, even with no assurances in a time of complete uncertainty. Then they started touting themselves as the morally superior humans because they followed the oligarchy's rules. It was the easiest divide and conquer method ever implemented.

 

[85SugarVol]

People should never be stripped of their medical autonomy. Jmo.

 

[Jxn Vol]

Just because I am being critical of some of the stuff @VolinWayne is posting doesn't mean I am pro vaccine. I let facts and stats dictate my opinions, not my ideology. Right now, the vaccine does not work as intended. It is, statistically speaking, a mild therapeutic with unknown side effects. Globally speaking at a 30,000 foot level, the side effects are immaterial at this time (yes, it is not immaterial to those impacted) but yes, there is a risk that those facts change.

Last year, the facts were different. The vaccine, against the first couple of strands, worked largely as intended; however, as the virus has mutated, and got less potent, the facts changed. Statistically speaking @Vjcvette was correct in getting vaccinated given her age last year. This year, the facts have changed.

The changing facts are the exact reason you do not rush anything in healthcare that does not need to be rushed.

I will disagree with the side effects being immaterial. Based on facts and early data this shot should have never made it to market. Based on VAERS data it should be pulled. No vaccine has had the amount of side effects reported as this one.

I also do not see a reason to rush an unproven shot, marketed as a vaccine, for a virus that has a 99% survival rate. It is now proven that natural immunity is superior to the shot. And the environment created and pushed to force this shot was absurd.

Oh and the only shots that were or still being given in the US are still only EUA. They are not even FDA approved.

 

[VolinWayne]

Pre COVID, 500,000 people died annually from aneurysms globally....It's sad but this proves absolutely nothing.

You can't deny there has been a huge increase in seemingly perfectly healthy adults suddenly dying. There is one common denonominator in the majority (not all)of these sudden deaths. That is a fact. I will venture to challenge you for every unvaccinated person you find in the news that dies "suddenly" I can find 15 vaccinated "sudden death" individuals. My question is why is it political to have an open discussion or to even mention the jab as possibly being the cause of these deaths?

 

[hog88]

My biggest problem with it all is it showed people's true colors in a time of conflict. All the media platforms had to do was blast fear porn 24/7. People started wanting to strip others of their freedom of choice immediately, even with no assurances in a time of complete uncertainty. Then they started touting themselves as the morally superior humans because they followed the oligarchy's rules. It was the easiest divide and conquer method ever implemented.

You are correct, Covid brought out most people's true colors and I saw that as a good thing.

 

[Ttucke11]

You can't deny there has been a huge increase in seemingly perfectly healthy adults suddenly dying. There is one common denonominator in the majority (not all)of these sudden deaths. That is a fact. I will venture to challenge you for every unvaccinated person you find in the news that dies "suddenly" I can find 15 vaccinated "sudden death" individuals. My question is why is it political to have an open discussion or to even mention the jab as possibly being the cause of these deaths?

We are not allowed to question the oligarchy. Or you'll get in trouble.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/08/03/fau...on-covid-vaccines-boosters-means-trouble.html

 

[BigOrangeMojo]

You can't deny there has been a huge increase in seemingly perfectly healthy adults suddenly dying. There is one common denonominator in the majority (not all)of these sudden deaths. That is a fact. I will venture to challenge you for every unvaccinated person you find in the news that dies "suddenly" I can find 15 vaccinated "sudden death" individuals. My question is why is it political to have an open discussion or to even mention the jab as possibly being the cause of these deaths?

Again, your statements don't reflect reality....

 

[HammondB3Vol]

My biggest problem with it all is it showed people's true colors in a time of conflict. All the media platforms had to do was blast fear porn 24/7. People started wanting to strip others of their freedom of choice immediately, even with no assurances in a time of complete uncertainty. Then they started touting themselves as the morally superior humans because they followed the oligarchy's rules. It was the easiest divide and conquer method ever implemented.

This ^^^^^!!

 

[BigOrangeMojo]

The changing facts are the exact reason you do not rush anything in healthcare that does not need to be rushed.

Given that the vaccine is currently not working as intended, it is reasonable to make a risk/reward analysis based on current facts, your personal health information, and your risk tolerance.

My biggest issue is either side posting blatantly disingenous information, false information, or half truths. I criticized @mad4vols when he did the same thing...

 

[Ttucke11]

Given that the vaccine is currently not working as intended, it is reasonable to make a risk/reward analysis based on current facts, your personal health information, and your risk tolerance.

My biggest issue is either side posting blatantly disingenous information, false information, or half truths. I criticized @mad4vols when he did the same thing...

Vaccines not preventing transmission or infection was "false information" just a short time ago. I'm not disagreeing with you at all. Just stating.

 

[K-town Vol Fan]

I support anyone's decision who decided to get it.

Clearly you don't, based on your posts in this thread.

 

[BigOrangeMojo]

Vaccines not preventing transmission or infection was "false information" just a short time ago. I'm not disagreeing with you at all. Just stating.

Different fact pattern. In early 2021, the vaccine did largely what it intended by reducing transmission and infections. By summer 2022 with all the variants and mutations of COVID, it does not do what it intended.

If you are screaming from the rooftops that the current vaccine works as intended right now, that would be false information. It's why @mad4vols is quiet, he can't justify it anymore. If you screamed in Spring 2021 that the vaccine in place at that time did not work at all, that would be false information.. Facts change.

 

[Ttucke11]

Clearly you don't, based on your posts in this thread.

Show me.

Different fact pattern. In early 2021, the vaccine did largely what it intended by reducing transmission and infections. By summer 2022 with all the variants and mutations of COVID, it does not.

We will agree to disagree. It was intended as "you won't get COVID if you have this vaccine" which it never achieved.

CDC director says data 'suggests that vaccinated people do not carry the virus'

 

[kiddiedoc]

My biggest problem with it all is it showed people's true colors in a time of conflict. All the media platforms had to do was blast fear porn 24/7. People started wanting to strip others of their freedom of choice immediately, even with no assurances in a time of complete uncertainty. Then they started touting themselves as the morally superior humans because they followed the oligarchy's rules. It was the easiest divide and conquer method ever implemented.

I literally had some nutsos calling my office manager and wanting to speak to "my boss" about getting me shut down or fired because of comments I made regarding children, the virus, and vaccines on a local news channel's Facebook/Twitter. They were a little surprised that the boss was me, LOL.

 

[LouderVol]

I was pro- vaccine. Now....I'm not so sure.
I've gotten the series plus 2 boosters, and I'm just now recovering from my 3rd bout with Covid-19 .

I've been sick for 6 days...

If you don't want to get it and can afford not to, then do what you think is best.

Get well soon.

 

[BigOrangeMojo]

Show me.



We will agree to disagree. It was intended as "you won't get COVID if you have this vaccine" which it never achieved.

CDC director says data 'suggests that vaccinated people do not carry the virus'

For the original strain, it largely did what was intended.

For the variants, obviously it did less and less with each new one. Again, facts change. For the Biden Administration to say "if you get the shot, you won't get COVID" with they had the new facts was an outright lie...

 

[Ttucke11]

For the original strain, it largely did what was intended.

For the variants, obviously it did less and less with each new one. Again, facts change. For the Biden Administration to say "if you get the shot, you won't get COVID" with the new facts was an outright lie...

I respect the civil conversation. I can't say I remember all the stats and timelines perfectly, but there was a lot of outright lies in regards to the effectiveness and intent of the vaccine from the beginning imo.