Venezuela's Triumphant Socialist Paradise

#1,451
#1,451
Velo Vol said:
Sure, the host country can order diplomats to leave. However, if one parked himself inside the chancery and never left the compound (Assange style), the host country couldn't remove him, right?
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I'd say that's an interesting question for the international law experts. However, in this particular situation, I'd say they could remove him since the new Ambassador wanted the embassy to be cleared.

It's interesting in this case that when the old staff vacated the premises, they welcomed in the Code Pink turds.
 
#1,455
#1,455
GreyWolf1129 said:
Okay, Vienna Convention's out. Just or unjust?

So the US "picked a side in an internal debate". Meh, not really. The US, along with quite a number of other nations (excluding, of course, the world-renowned democracies of Russia, North Korea, and Cuba) recognizes Guaido as the elected head of Venezuela (there's another point of contention for you if you need it). His is, in fact, a government-in-exile. But if we recognize Guaido, then the Venezuelan embassy belongs to...drum roll...his government.

So if the Venezuelan government we (among others) recognize as the legitimate Venezuelan government requested that we assist them in removing what was, in fact, squatters in their embassy...then yes, it was a just action. As for "throwing SWAT at them", it looked like a fairly low-key op to me. What were we supposed to send, a locksmith and the D.C. Welcome Wagon?

Pick your battles, Ras. You're an intelligent person. This is a very low hill made of South American political garbage to plant your flag on.
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Just because we recognize them as the govt, that doesn't make it our business to interfere. Imagine the outrage if Putin would have done the same with Yanukovich in Ukraine 5 years ago? Look at the failed state we left behind in Libya when we picked a side in that internal conflict. Hell, can you tell me who the legitimate leader is in Yemen?
 
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#1,456
#1,456
NorthDallas40 said:
Chain of succession by their constitution in the absence of a duly elected president I think? Along those lines?
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So the US is in the business of enforcing Venezuelan laws and Constitution... but not its very own at times?

Seems like we've got our own business to be more worried about and need to spend less time poking around with Venezuela.
 
#1,457
#1,457
Grand Vol said:
There's always a Paul Harvey moment with your links...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/police-forcibly-remove-activists-living-in-the-venezuelan-embassy-in-washington/2019/05/16/80d464be-77cf-11e9-b3f5-5673edf2d127_story.html

The Venezuelan Embassy in Washington’s Georgetown neighborhood has been the site of dueling protests between backers of embattled President Nicolás Maduro and supporters of Guaidó, who has been recognized by the United States and about 50 other nations as the country’s interim president.

Carlos Vecchio, the Guaidó-appointed ambassador recognized by the U.S. government, said his diplomatic mission would take control of the embassy Thursday evening.

Earlier this week, Vecchio requested U.S. assistance in removing activists living inside the embassy and gave federal law enforcement officers permission to enter, a State Department spokesman said. U.S. Magistrate Judge G. Michael Harvey later issued a warrant for the demonstrators’ arrests.
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Still ends up being the US picking a side that they consider legitimate and using the US judicial system and law enforcement to enforce Venezuelan law.

How is this not well beyond the scope of our govt?
 
#1,460
#1,460
#1,463
#1,463
Rasputin_Vol said:
That is an op-ed piece. His opinions are not fact.
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Looks to me that there's a lot of doubt about the legality of Maduro's election.

Ultimately the Venezuelan people have to work it out. You can argue that it's not wise for the U.S. to meddle, but there's a lot of gray area here, including what happened at the embassy yesterday.
 
#1,464
#1,464
Velo Vol said:
Looks to me that there's a lot of doubt about the legality of Maduro's election.

Ultimately the Venezuelan people have to work it out. You can argue that it's not wise for the U.S. to meddle, but there's a lot of gray area here, including what happened at the embassy yesterday.
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Imagine if you will this situation.

President Trump calls the Democratic Party illegal before the next election. Along with the Green Party and Libertarian Party. Also, he throws out all the opposition members of Congress and declares them illegal, installing those who are known sycophants and supporters. Then has an "election" where he's the only person running and declares himself the winner.

Does this seem like a valid election to you? Because that's pretty much what happened in Venezuela after the last "election" which is why Guaidó was Constitutionally responsible to take power. It's a gray area for certain, but there is legal backing to his claim of Interim President.
 
#1,465
#1,465
Rasputin_Vol said:
"recognized" doesn't mean "legitimate"
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I get it, since Maduro is being backed by your idol Putin, he's obviously the legitimate leader of Venezuela.

When you come off the ceiling over someone actually posting the rest of the facts in this matter and are ready to discuss this reasonably, let me know.
 
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#1,466
#1,466
Rasputin_Vol said:
Just because we recognize them as the govt, that doesn't make it our business to interfere. Imagine the outrage if Putin would have done the same with Yanukovich in Ukraine 5 years ago? Look at the failed state we left behind in Libya when we picked a side in that internal conflict. Hell, can you tell me who the legitimate leader is in Yemen?
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Lol.

South ossetia, Abkhazia, transnistria. All are unrecognized countries Russia has taken military action in against the will of the recognized country. Russia definitely picked sides there. Also you have the elephant of Ukraine.

Keep talking out of both sides of your mouth.
 
#1,469
#1,469
NorthDallas40 said:
I’m not advocating we go in Ras.
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Ras will tell you we already did. Since Putin supports Maduro, obviously Maduro is the one really in charge regardless of how illegitimate his "election" was. Hence, when they went in to clear out the Americans hiding in the embassy, we are in a de facto state of war with Venezuela.
 
#1,470
#1,470
Grand Vol said:
Ras will tell you we already did. Since Putin supports Maduro, obviously Maduro is the one really in charge regardless of how illegitimate his "election" was. Hence, when they went in to clear out the Americans hiding in the embassy, we are in a de facto state of war with Venezuela.
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Oh I know. you gotta give Ras credit though if anything he is relentless 😂
 
#1,473
#1,473
Velo Vol said:
Looks to me that there's a lot of doubt about the legality of Maduro's election.

Ultimately the Venezuelan people have to work it out. You can argue that it's not wise for the U.S. to meddle, but there's a lot of gray area here, including what happened at the embassy yesterday.
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Maduro is no more or less legitimate than Guiado. The US needs to get out of meddling in these internal affairs.
 
#1,474
#1,474
Grand Vol said:
I get it, since Maduro is being backed by your idol Putin, he's obviously the legitimate leader of Venezuela.

When you come off the ceiling over someone actually posting the rest of the facts in this matter and are ready to discuss this reasonably, let me know.
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I think you miss the point. Putin was invited. Whether that is a good decision for Putin to get involved is his mistake to make, but we have seen far too often that whenever the US engages ourselves in these internal matters, things never work as desired.
 
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