Vice Presidential Debate 2020

#901
#901
utvols83 said:
Lincoln had a Republican led Senate and still held off on nominating a new justice until after he was reelected...so it has happened. Lincoln also had a 10th justice added and appointed 5 justices in four years, so there's also some history of packing the court. The GOP is being a bit hypocritical, but that's politics.
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It hasn’t happened since the early 1900’s was my initial statement. There was an article that said something like out of 27 opportunities an appointment was made in 25 of them. Thus that is the expected outcome.

Also let’s go dig up some FDR on SCOTUS appointments and court packing threats.
 
#902
#902
Reflecting on last night's debate makes me upset with Trump. What Pence did last night is a prime example of what an effective campaign would be hammering home: such as how Biden is going to raise taxes, how Biden's energy plan is basically a re-skinned Green New Deal, or the defense of his Covid response.

If trump could've just laid off the Twitter and if Trump and his campaign could have the same level of communication and clarity that Pence had last night, the polls would undoubtedly be flipped right now.
 
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#909
#909
utvols83 said:
Lincoln had a Republican led Senate and still held off on nominating a new justice until after he was reelected...so it has happened. Lincoln also had a 10th justice added and appointed 5 justices in four years, so there's also some history of packing the court. The GOP is being a bit hypocritical, but that's politics.
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Lincoln isn’t the POTUS anyone should be bringing up as an example of doing things right.
 
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#910
#910
utvolpj said:
When you're going back to civil way days for examples you've pretty much lost the upper hand
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Trump uses Lincoln as a reference all the time. I didn't know that it isn't allowed to use him to defend a position that's opposite of that of the GOP or Trump. Oh, and using historical context is wrong too now...screw it if it happened in the civil war days, right? You'll have to forgive me if I'm having to do a lot of catching up on how to defend Trump. There's a lot of mental gymnastics involved, but I'm sure I can get up to speed if I hang around here a little more.
 
#911
#911
Wafflestomper said:
Again, expecting what is largely the same senate to act consistently is not the same as hypocrisy.
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That's exactly what I said. Expecting the Dems in the Senate to act largely the same is not hypocrisy.

Consistency flows both ways. Or rather, the politically motivated lack there of does.
 
#913
#913
utvols83 said:
Trump uses Lincoln as a reference all the time. I didn't know that it isn't allowed to use him to defend a position that's opposite of that of the GOP or Trump. Oh, and using historical context is wrong too now...screw it if it happened in the civil war days, right? You'll have to forgive me if I'm having to do a lot of catching up on how to defend Trump. There's a lot of mental gymnastics involved, but I'm sure I can get up to speed if I hang around here a little more.
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Lincoln didnt appoint someone because he was busy. Not because he thought it should wait. There was this whole civil war thing going on. He never stated a president should wait.
 
#915
#915
utvols83 said:
Trump uses Lincoln as a reference all the time. I didn't know that it isn't allowed to use him to defend a position that's opposite of that of the GOP or Trump. Oh, and using historical context is wrong too now...screw it if it happened in the civil war days, right? You'll have to forgive me if I'm having to do a lot of catching up on how to defend Trump. There's a lot of mental gymnastics involved, but I'm sure I can get up to speed if I hang around here a little more.
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Lincoln threatened justices with arrest if they didn’t vote his way. You ok with Trump using that tactic also?
 
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#916
#916
LouderVol said:
Lincoln didnt appoint someone because he was busy. Not because he thought it should wait. There was this whole civil war thing going on. He never stated a president should wait.
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And I never said anything about his reasoning, which was purely political. It enabled him to keep potential rivals within the party, such as Salmon Chase, in line behind his reelection. Once reelected, he nominated Chase for chief justice.
 
#917
#917
hog88 said:
Lincoln threatened justices with arrest if they didn’t vote his way. You ok with Trump using that tactic also?
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Was lincoln even letting the supreme court meet at the time, or were they still suspended? I know they heard a case in 65, but not sure about 64.
 
#919
#919
utvols83 said:
And I never said anything about his reasoning, which was purely political. It enabled him to keep potential rivals within the party, such as Salmon Chase, in line behind his reelection. Once reelected, he nominated Chase for chief justice.
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So not really different then.

We have 25 yes they did, I am assuming these helped the president.
We have 1, no they didnt because it hurt the president.
And we have 1, no they didnt because it helped the president
So not really sure bringing up Lincoln really helps the argument because it was done to help the president...
 
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#920
#920
OHvol40 said:
It’s funny to try and watch you worm and squirm into a justification for blatant hypocrisy. Keep going, you’re doing great!
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Here ya go! Go educate your azz... again. You too @utvols83 . Only once in the history of our nation did an opposing party Senate confirm a nominee. In all this has happened 29 times and in all 29 cases a nomination was made. It’s silly to cherry pick a singular instance as defining process while ignoring the other 28 cases.

Lol indeed 😂

History shows how SCOTUS nominations play out in election years
 
#921
#921
hog88 said:
Lincoln threatened justices with arrest if they didn’t vote his way. You ok with Trump using that tactic also?
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I didn't realize that using Lincoln as an example meant that I fully endorse everything he did. I better make sure I don't use Trump as an example for anything because I definitely don't endorse banging porn stars unprotected while you're married and I wouldn't want anyone to think that. Another lesson learned...
 
#922
#922
utvols83 said:
I didn't realize that using Lincoln as an example meant that I fully endorse everything he did. I better make sure I don't use Trump as an example for anything because I definitely don't endorse banging porn stars unprotected while you're married and I wouldn't want anyone to think that. Another lesson learned...
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Just find another example to use in support of your argument, it shouldn't be hard........
 
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#923
#923
LouderVol said:
So not really different then.

We have 25 yes they did, I am assuming these helped the president.
We have 1, no they didnt because it hurt the president.
And we have 1, no they didnt because it helped the president
So not really sure bringing up Lincoln really helps the argument because it was done to help the president...
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I simply pointed out that it has happened after someone said it hadn't.
 
#924
#924
utvols83 said:
I simply pointed out that it has happened after someone said it hadn't.
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You cherry picked the singular example of it happening in 29 instances of election year nominations while ignoring the other 28. And you’re getting rightly roasted for the cherry picking.
 
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#925
#925
hog88 said:
I'm not sure about that.
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It was just habeas corpus that lincoln suspended throughout. It wasnt until 1866 that it was opened back up. I was thinking that was the courts.

Lincoln didnt actually stop the courts, he just refused to listen to them or act on any of what they said. So not shot down, just ignored.
 
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