Vitale: Early preseason top 40

#76
#76
MikeHamiltonFan said:
I guess you played basketball at West Point? So you are the expert of NCAA athletics?

Newsflash, there is no hazing at TN in terms of carrying bags. They also do not do shaving cream to the face.
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This is exactly what the Nats did with Strasburg after his first win. It has nothing to do with West Point. It's sports. Teams do that with rookies at all levels... middle school through professional ranks.

It does make me wonder if you ever played on a team.
 
#77
#77
utmba93 said:
This is exactly what the Nats did with Strasburg after his first win. It has nothing to do with West Point. It's sports. Teams do that with rookies at all levels... middle school through professional ranks.

It does make me wonder if you ever played on a team.
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There's a very clear answer to that final sentence. Probably doesn't undertand that coaches allow it and it serves a purpose.
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#78
#78
BigPapaVol said:
There's a very clear answer to that final sentence. Probably doesn't undertand that coaches allow it and it serves a purpose.
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If he played, he probably quit after getting his first red-belly in Pop Warner.
 
#79
#79
utmba93 said:
This is exactly what the Nats did with Strasburg after his first win. It has nothing to do with West Point. It's sports. Teams do that with rookies at all levels... middle school through professional ranks.

It does make me wonder if you ever played on a team.
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We messed around with our freshman and we were a sucky high school team. It happens everywhere.
 
#80
#80
A statement that there is no hazing in sports is idiotic.

A statement that Tobias Harris will be hazed because in the Patriot League at a military school that is how we did things is about as retarded as bringing up a baseball tradition to support the idea that Harris will be hazed.

I did play, but not at college because I went to UT for college and I was not even close to being as good as the football and basketball players.

This entire argument BPV started when you pretended that you have something special to bring to the debate about T Harris being the man or not because you played basketball. The funniest part is that you did one of those "he may or may not be" type non predictions so if he struggles as a freshman (which is the norm) you can say you were right, and if he is the dominant player he might be you can say you were right. Weak...

Perhaps more relevant to the argument at hand, did any of you know freshmen in the Tennessee basketball program in the last 3 decades? Do you have any reason to believe they were hazed as freshmen in a way that will impact their ability to take shots in the final minute?
My answers are yes and no which is why I took exception to the stupidity of BPVs statement.
 
#81
#81
BTW I endured hazing for team building or whatever you want to call it. But Bruce Pearl is not Bobby Knight or Bear Bryant, and a 6'8 one and done potential freshman is not a message board pundit who played sports at some sucky level.

If you think that Cousins and Wall endured hazing and it made them unable to take the final shot (something closest to the retarded post that started this) I say you are the person who does not know anything about SEC basketball.
 
#82
#82
MikeHamiltonFan said:
A statement that there is no hazing in sports is idiotic.

A statement that Tobias Harris will be hazed because in the Patriot League at a military school that is how we did things is about as retarded as bringing up a baseball tradition to support the idea that Harris will be hazed.
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Do you realize that to make the generalization in your first point, one needs to accept the relevance of examples like the one you criticize in your second?

Yet, I am convinced that while you don't have firsthand experience with college basketball, you can rely on that for your assessment of idiocy and retardation.
 
#83
#83
MikeHamiltonFan said:
BTW I endured hazing for team building or whatever you want to call it. But Bruce Pearl is not Bobby Knight or Bear Bryant, and a 6'8 one and done potential freshman is not a message board pundit who played sports at some sucky level.
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However you set the bar, West Point basketball is above the 'sucky level' you achieved. So, what does that make your experience?
 
#84
#84
You guys had trouble in the other thread with something basic.

If I say,

Some peanuts come from Mexico and are of inferior quality...

However the peanuts from Americus, Georgia that have been sorted well are top notch.

I am not contradicting my second statement with my first.

I said Tobias Harris will not be hazed and the fact that hazing occurs in sports does not have relevance. The disconnect for you guys is that apparently you do not know any of the players in our basketball program and have not for a long time. The hazing you endured playing mens field hockey does not mean that a man who is known as a likely future millionaire and the savior of his team will be humbled by carrying bags.

Ask Trae Golden if he feels afraid of taking a shot because he has been hazed. He may say that he feels overwhelmed by the speed of the game when he first starts, but I can tell you that no team we play will be moving lots faster than the guys his AAU team played. The main difference will be how well organized the defense is. He is already learning from Lofton how to come off a screen and get his shot off quickly which is a great thing.

BPV's statement is basically "I played bball in college, and we hazed freshman." He then follows that brilliance with, "Tobias Harris may or may not turn into the guy who scores at the end of the game."
 
#85
#85
utmba93 said:
However you set the bar, West Point basketball is above the 'sucky level' you achieved. So, what does that make your experience?
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My experience playing travel soccer and basketball is not relevant to Tobias Harris experience. Neither is Patriot League at a military school. The current state of the program with Pearl at the helm tells me that the reason Hopson struggled was not hazing, but his own confidence issues and that Kenny Hall struggled because he weighed too little, Brian Williams because he weighed too much.

Tobias Harris is more ready to score when we need a basket than anyone we have had coming in as a freshman probably since the Devoe era. Allan Houston is the other guy who comes to mind.
 
#86
#86
MikeHamiltonFan said:
A statement that there is no hazing in sports is idiotic.

A statement that Tobias Harris will be hazed because in the Patriot League at a military school that is how we did things is about as retarded as bringing up a baseball tradition to support the idea that Harris will be hazed.

I did play, but not at college because I went to UT for college and I was not even close to being as good as the football and basketball players.

This entire argument BPV started when you pretended that you have something special to bring to the debate about T Harris being the man or not because you played basketball. The funniest part is that you did one of those "he may or may not be" type non predictions so if he struggles as a freshman (which is the norm) you can say you were right, and if he is the dominant player he might be you can say you were right. Weak...

Perhaps more relevant to the argument at hand, did any of you know freshmen in the Tennessee basketball program in the last 3 decades? Do you have any reason to believe they were hazed as freshmen in a way that will impact their ability to take shots in the final minute?
My answers are yes and no which is why I took exception to the stupidity of BPVs statement.
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You're still an idiot. My statement was about college freshmen, period. You act as if my experience with that is somehow irrelevant because it wasn't at Tennessee or with Tobias Harris, which is as dumb as the day is long.

If you don't understand a kid's tendency to be deferential then you should, once again, shut the hell up. My comment was absolutely neutral about whether our brand new freshman basketball player would be our clutch shooter. It was in response to someone dumb enough, similar to you, to make absolute statements about whether he will be our last second shot taker.
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#87
#87
MikeHamiltonFan said:
BTW I endured hazing for team building or whatever you want to call it. But Bruce Pearl is not Bobby Knight or Bear Bryant, and a 6'8 one and done potential freshman is not a message board pundit who played sports at some sucky level.

If you think that Cousins and Wall endured hazing and it made them unable to take the final shot (something closest to the retarded post that started this) I say you are the person who does not know anything about SEC basketball.
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Hey bonehead, the list of freshmen ill prepared for last second shots is dramatically higher than those who will take it with confidence and hit it. I know you're dying to make this about me, but that's stupid.

If this is about message board punditry, one of us is more qualified in every single measure to make a comment about the topic and it isn't you with your encyclopedic knowledge of nothing. Honestly, you're easil one of the worst detractors form basketball on this board. Everyone here knows it. prognostication stupidity sans reason is the playground for anyone, as all here know because you do it so often without knowing a mothertrucking thing.
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#88
#88
I do understand why you would want me to shut up.

Someone made a statement that our top recruit in Bruce Pearls tenure who was dominating the McDonald's All Star game before he broke his foot, would be the logical person to be the clutch shooter at the end of the game.

You sneered that because you played college basketball (with a crappy team success wise) you knew that he would be hazed as a freshman and would not be ready.

I pointed out an example (Carmelo) or a big man who that did not apply to and the crying and name calling began. You did summarize your "absolutely neutral" comment which is pure cowardice. You say "you do not know what you are talking about, he will be hazed" and then instead of saying that means he will not be the clutch shot talker, you hedge.

Cousins, Durant, Oden, Anthony, all big men who were the stars of their team after NBA guys were forced to play a year. None of them were scared to take the last shot. Your insight "but but they will be hazed and I know because I played college ball" is irrelevant and your non prediction is pathetic.
 
#89
#89
MikeHamiltonFan said:
My experience playing travel soccer and basketball is not relevant to Tobias Harris experience. Neither is Patriot League at a military school.
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Travel sports in grade school are not equivalent to playing college basketball... in any league.

One reason that both B Knight and Coach K did well at West Point is that it provided an ideal set of knowledgeable and intelligent athletes through which they could test their strategies and tactics. But sometimes military academies do get talented players (like David Robinson at Annapolis).

They're also quite selective and the one you're criticizing is 4th on the list for producing Rhodes Scholars.

The odds of you being a West Point reject appear quite high in light of your comments, as few people, other than jilted rejects spend so much time belittling our nations' service academies. Is that the case?

You sure spend a lot of time trying to make whatever you've done seem more important. But what is trivial experience is simply that, and that's about all you seem to summarize when you boast about your past.
 
#90
#90
I don't understand what makes MHF believe Tobias is exempt from Freshmen hazing?
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#92
#92
MikeHamiltonFan said:
I do understand why you would want me to shut up.

I don't give a crap if you shut up. Hell, this place is entertaining because idiots like you continue to pretend to know basketball and the anonymity makes looking like an utter moron palatable to your ilk. Please continue.

Someone made a statement that our top recruit in Bruce Pearls tenure who was dominating the McDonald's All Star game before he broke his foot, would be the logical person to be the clutch shooter at the end of the game.

you have no remote freaking idea about clutch shooting when it matters based upon the silliness of all star game play. His play at the end of last season would be more indicative, and it didn't go well. Clutch shooting is simply tough to figure and massively overrated. Coaches making that call are as concerned with confidence as they are ability to knock it down. It's a dynamic about which you clearly know absolutely nothing.

You sneered that because you played college basketball (with a crappy team success wise) you knew that he would be hazed as a freshman and would not be ready.

I sneered because until someone has spent significant time around college freshmen hoopsters, they have no idea what goes on with them. You're clear lack thereof lumps into the no idea crowd too. The fact that you took from my comment that it's about my level of play says you're moron enough to speak from pure ignorance.

I pointed out an example (Carmelo) or a big man who that did not apply to and the crying and name calling began. You did summarize your "absolutely neutral" comment which is pure cowardice. You say "you do not know what you are talking about, he will be hazed" and then instead of saying that means he will not be the clutch shot talker, you hedge.

you idiot. You also pointed out Oden, which was one of the dumbest things I've ever read. Seriously, cowardice? Over a message board comment. You really equate this to bravery as you spout your stupidity here. Good, grief. As to the rest, I'm not hedging in the least. Put your unbelievably awesome LSAT scores to work, even though you defaulted to a craphole, and actually read what is there. Don't be so stupid as to let your own worthless experience here color the commentary. You might even read, I know it's taxing, the comment to which I was responding to help understand the point.

Cousins, Durant, Oden, Anthony, all big men who were the stars of their team after NBA guys were forced to play a year. None of them were scared to take the last shot. Your insight "but but they will be hazed and I know because I played college ball" is irrelevant and your non prediction is pathetic.

Oden? Again? You're an utter idiot. Cousins? What the hell does that first sentence even mean, LSAT boy? Listing a pile of NBA beasts beside our guy, doesn't remotely have a game comparable to them is funny as hell. I want him to be a stud, but listing NBAers is just senseless. Maybe you'll recall how our last big time McD AA recruit worked out. And finally, more predictions bravado. It makes you awesome. It's just hard for me to make them because it takes such courage. I am impressed by you, especially since your professed reason to hide who you are is that the anonymity lets you be such an idiot and emboldens you. The irony is fantastic and the stupidity over the top.
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See bold. I'll be cowering in the corner awaiting my medicine from the brave one. Please go easy. We don't all have LSAT scores of giants to show for defaulting to turd U, so type slowly.
 
#94
#94
utmba93 said:
It seems more like a personal attack on BPV to me than any reasoned argument.
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an attack that isn't going well. Using the personal side to defend a really bad point is just a bad idea. Mocking my personal background, when by any objective measure, positions me higher on the ladder in a 360 degree look, is simply dumb as hell.
 
#95
#95
BigPapaVol said:
an attack that isn't going well. Using the personal side to defend a really bad point is just a bad idea. Mocking my personal background, when by any objective measure, positions me higher on the ladder in a 360 degree look, is simply dumb as hell.
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All that ladder talk is in vain until you make a prediction, BPV.
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#96
#96
Lofton4Three said:
All that ladder talk is in vain until you make a prediction, BPV.
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just proves cowardice. It scares the living hell out of me to even think about predicting something on an anonymous bulletin board. My 360 degree view was apparently wrong, as LSAT boy is apparently intrepid, where I'm just afraid to say anything.
 
#97
#97
BigPapaVol said:
just proves cowardice. It scares the living hell out of me to even think about predicting something on an anonymous bulletin board. My 360 degree view was apparently wrong, as LSAT boy is apparently intrepid, where I'm just afraid to say anything.
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Just stay light on your feet, keep the jab, he'll eventually leave you an opening.
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#98
#98
Lofton4Three said:
Just stay light on your feet, keep the jab, he'll eventually leave you an opening.
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they're hard to come by. Dude just has all the bases covered - and he makes predictions. How does one find the room?
 
#99
#99
BigPapaVol said:
they're hard to come by. Dude just has all the bases covered - and he makes predictions. How does one find the room?
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Good point. Toss in the towel.

You've got to know when to hold them...
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#100
#100
BPV,

Do you really not see why you coming from a place where you can get in trouble if you do not cut the dessert correctly gives you a different view on hazing than knowing TN basketball players who play under Bruce Pearl?

I do not know why you keep bringing up the SAT in other threads and the LSAT in this one. Perhaps you struggled with standardized tests which has created an obsession, or perhaps you did very well with them and you are waiting for the opportunity to compete in that arena on a message board. Either way, it is sad.

I have tremendous respect for West Point as an institution, and I have not disparaged it except inasmuch as the quality of basketball play is low. I did not want a Congressional recommendation (which we did talk about at my Eagle Scout ceremony) because the military did not seem like the path for me. I also did not take enough math to get into West Point.

I respect tremendously your service. I think your insinuation that unless you played college basketball you do not know as much about it as someone who did is completely idiotic. I also know that you are wrong about the upcoming hazing of Tobias Harris and although you implied rather than directly stating it, I believe Tobias will be one of our top options at the end of the game despite his freshman status.
 
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