VN, help! Manning vs. Brady (long but worth it)

#151
#151
Many years from now, people will look back and wonder how anyone could have NOT realized now that Peyton is clearly the best ever. They will laugh at the Brady and Montana worshippers.
 
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#152
#152
We now interrupt the Bad Jerry and Huff Show for this very important message GO VOLS....back to your regularly scheduled thread :rock::hi:
 
#154
#154
Hacksaw said:
Many years from now, people will look back and wonder how anyone could have NOT realized now that Peyton is clearly the best ever. They will laugh at the Brady and Montana worshippers.
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You do realize that Montana spent his entire career playing in the era when it was totally legal to take the QBs head off right? I mean if he would have been playing with today's rules, with his old teams where receivers cannot really be hit? Brady and Manning would not even be mentioned in the same sentence as Montana. Of course all the experts all reay consider Manning the GOAT. That will likely not change for a long time.
 
#156
#156
BigOrangeTrain said:
You do realize that Montana spent his entire career playing in the era when it was totally legal to take the QBs head off right? I mean if he would have been playing with today's rules, with his old teams where receivers cannot really be hit? Brady and Manning would not even be mentioned in the same sentence as Montana. Of course all the experts all reay consider Manning the GOAT. That will likely not change for a long time.
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It's just not true that ALL the experts think Montana is the best ever. A lot of them have said that about Montana. But at one time a lot of experts said that Bronko Nagurski was the greatest RB of all time. Then Jim Brown came along. At one time, "all the experts" said the Earth was flat.

Your opinion is duly noted, but it is just that...an opinion. I've posted the evidence. You have obvioiusly chosen to ignore it and hold fast to your opinion, which is your right.
 
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#159
#159
Hacksaw said:
It's just not true that ALL the experts think Montana is the best ever. A lot of them have said that about Montana. But at one time a lot of experts said that Bronko Nagurski was the greatest RB of all time. Then Jim Brown came along. At one time, "all the experts" said the Earth was flat.

Your opinion is duly noted, but it is just that...an opinion. I've posted the evidence. You have obvioiusly chosen to ignore it and hold fast to your opinion, which is your right.
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Honestly it's how you judge the greatest, different people use different criteria. This whole thing has been a matter of opinions. Was nice to have a fairly calm conversation about it, lord knows that's a rare thing on here.
 
#160
#160
Hacksaw said:
It's just not true that ALL the experts think Montana is the best ever. A lot of them have said that about Montana. But at one time a lot of experts said that Bronko Nagurski was the greatest RB of all time. Then Jim Brown came along. At one time, "all the experts" said the Earth was flat.

Your opinion is duly noted, but it is just that...an opinion. I've posted the evidence. You have obvioiusly chosen to ignore it and hold fast to your opinion, which is your right.
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Ok maybe not all of the experts say it but most do. I have listened to a lot of commentary over the years and most of them consider Montana the GOAT. Also most of he QBs (including Brady and Manning) have said on numerous occasions that Montana is the GOAT. I have heard Dilfer, Aikman, Moon, Young, Jaworski, Gruden, Schlereth and many others say Montana is the GOAT.

When an opinion is shared with the majority of experts, former and current players, that opinion holds a lot more validity. You have provided some stats yes but they still fail in comparison to the postseason stats. I think Peyton is in the top 5-7 of all time and if he wins another ring, he will move up. However Peyton has thrown interceptions in the Super Bowl, he has lost a Super Bowl.
 
#161
#161
Another NFL record for Peyton today with his 24th four-touchdown game. No other NFL QB who has ever played the game has done that. But it's just another achievement that will be dismissed by those who still refuse to give him his due.

Just add it to the list (way too long to post here) of his all-time NFL records. In the next game or two he will surpass Dan Marino in all-time passing yards. He will reach that total in fewer games than Marino played and fewer games than Favre needed to surpass Marino. Eventually, if he stays healthy, there won't be an NFL record for QBs that he doesn't own.

But he's only top 5-7. Montana's better, because his TEAM won more SBs. Never mind the San Francisco running game that averaged almost 100 more yards a game in those playoff wins than Peyton's teams did. And never mind the San Fran defense that allowed 2 TDs per game less from their opponents than Peyton's teams.

I realize that this is all white noise to the Montana groupies here, but you can't blame a guy for trying.
 
#164
#164
Rodney Harrison just said he was the best ever, including Brady. That should help you out.
 
#166
#166
TennFan said:
Which QB has more MVP's? Why, Peyton, of course! Is that a good argument?
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I think it's significant. Not only does he have more MVPs than Brady or Montana, but he holds the all-time NFL record for most MVPs. Just another of his many NFL records. And at least the MVP is an INDIVIDUAL award, unlike the Lombardi Trophy, which is given to a TEAM.
 
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#167
#167
I agree with this completely. My observation is Peyton's "teams" implode during these bigger games, even if he isn't the most "clutch". He usually does enough to win only to be screwed over by his defense or extremely bad officiating, especially against the Patriots. Allowing hurt players to come back in immediately... Calling penalties on Peyton for the same play when he did nothing wrong that stumbled the drive to win the game. I don't like to use officiating as an excuse, but he's the most unlucky player I've ever seen.

WARNING: The audio from the link below contains some graphic language and is pretty lengthy. However, I recommend you listen to it for some additional ammo OP.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuTJck0AC8o&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]

Hacksaw said:
I think it's significant. Not only does he have more MVPs than Brady or Montana, but he holds the all-time NFL record for most MVPs. Just another of his many NFL records. And at least the MVP is an INDIVIDUAL award, unlike the Lombardi Trophy, which is given to a TEAM.
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#168
#168
Hacksaw said:
Another NFL record for Peyton today with his 24th four-touchdown game. No other NFL QB who has ever played the game has done that. But it's just another achievement that will be dismissed by those who still refuse to give him his due.

Just add it to the list (way too long to post here) of his all-time NFL records. In the next game or two he will surpass Dan Marino in all-time passing yards. He will reach that total in fewer games than Marino played and fewer games than Favre needed to surpass Marino. Eventually, if he stays healthy, there won't be an NFL record for QBs that he doesn't own.

But he's only top 5-7. Montana's better, because his TEAM won more SBs. Never mind the San Francisco running game that averaged almost 100 more yards a game in those playoff wins than Peyton's teams did. And never mind the San Fran defense that allowed 2 TDs per game less from their opponents than Peyton's teams.

I realize that this is all white noise to the Montana groupies here, but you can't blame a guy for trying.
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That's true because the actual fans who know about sports know that Montana is the GOAT and its not close. As I have said before even Manning and Brady say he is the best. So I guess Peyton won his Super Bowl by himself? :eek:lol::eek:lol: I guess he didn't have Harrison, Wayne, Clark, Addai, Mathis, Sanders, Freeny, Brock, Bracket, June, Bethea or Jackson. Not too mention Peyton has had some of the best offensive lines in the NFL on a consistent basis.

Anyway this is a pointless argument because you cannot think objectively and with non bias. Peyton is one of the best regular season QB of all time. Montana is greatest overall QB of all time. It's not about breaking records.
 
#169
#169
I post stat after stat -- not my opinion, mind you. Stat after stat, fact after fact. And your answer is to just repeat, over and over again, that Montana is the GOAT and its not close. Do you not realize how silly you sound?

And can you at least be bothered to post the links to where Manning and Brady said that Montana is the GOAT? That would be swell.

As for my objectivity, I can assure you that I am not hyping Peyton because he is a former Vol. And I have never been a Colts or Broncos fan. I only recently (in the last 2 years) came to the conclusion that Peyton is the greatest ever. And that was only after the evidence to support this conclusion grew to overwhelming proportions.

And no, I have never said that Peyton won a SB by himself. That accusation is the height of irony coming from you, since that seems to be the sole basis of your argument in support of Montana's greatness. In fact, the point I'm trying to make is that no QB wins -- OR LOSES -- a SB (or any game for that matter) by himself. I would think that would be obvious, but apparently it is not.
 
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#170
#170
Mr. Clutch Tom Brady just fumbled a snap on 4th and 1 to put the game away. Good thing for him they let Talib get away with both holding and going through the WR to bat the ball down.
 
#171
#171
n_huffhines said:
Mr. Clutch Tom Brady just fumbled a snap on 4th and 1 to put the game away. Good thing for him they let Talib get away with both holding and going through the WR to bat the ball down.
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Yeah, Talib had a firm grasp on that handful of jersey all the way across the field. But he kept in stride with the receiver and the refs ate the whistle. How often have we seen the Pats do that over the years? They get away with it because they are well-coached and they know just how far they can push it.

That's the thing you take away from watching any NE game -- how disciplined and well-coached they are. Their roster changes and they just keep winning. They showed a graphic last night that said there are 14 rookies on the Pats active roster right now. And they're 4-0. That's why they didn't miss a beat when Brady went down and Cassell came in. It's a testament to their coach and the system he has installed there.

And yeah, Brady almost cost them the game. But his defense pulled him out, so no one will remember it.
 
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#172
#172
Brady's team is depleted. Can't believe they are 4-0. I gotta respect him for that. It's easy to forgive a fumble like that, especially when they win. Remember when he threw a pick to lose against the Chargers, but the safety fumbled it instead of taking a knee? Yeah, things just seem to work out for Brady. The two exceptions are the improbable 2006 AFFCG comeback and the game a few years back where the Pats went for it on 4th and inches on their own 30 against the Colts.
 
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#173
#173
n_huffhines said:
You can compare whatever stats you want. If Joe didn't have his playoff results that he has, nobody would think he is an all-time great, which is why I am bringing up where he faltered in the playoffs.

Manning has unparalleled statistical success.
Manning has unparalleled regular season success.

Montana has 4 SBs. So does Bradshaw.
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But he did. So everyone does think he's an all-time great.
 
#174
#174
Hacksaw said:
Many years from now, people will look back and wonder how anyone could have NOT realized now that Peyton is clearly the best ever. They will laugh at the Brady and Montana worshippers.
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Not if Manning loses in the first round of the playoffs again this year they won't.
 
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