Vols in NBA Draft

#227
#227
Keon's stock has really dropped due to poor combine measurements (other than the vert) and then just his lack of overall offensive skill. If the Knicks keep both of their picks, I can't see Thibs passing up Keon at either 19 or 21. But man what a fall from everybody thinking he was top 10 for sure.
 
#229
#229
Vols8086 said:
Keon's stock has really dropped due to poor combine measurements (other than the vert) and then just his lack of overall offensive skill. If the Knicks keep both of their picks, I can't see Thibs passing up Keon at either 19 or 21. But man what a fall from everybody thinking he was top 10 for sure.
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Keon was also 2nd in the 3/4 court sprint. He was the exact opposite of “poor combine measurements “
 
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#230
#230
walkenvol said:
Keon was also 2nd in the 3/4 court sprint. He was the exact opposite of “poor combine measurements “
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Measurements as in his wingspan and height. Thats whats killing him. Its a big reason Moses Moody has jumped up into the top 10. He measured what people thought Keon would. Then you take on a limited offensive game and here we are.
 
#231
#231
Vols8086 said:
Measurements as in his wingspan and height. Thats whats killing him. Its a big reason Moses Moody has jumped up into the top 10. He measured what people thought Keon would. Then you take on a limited offensive game and here we are.
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Yep, Keon is an example of a kid who probably could have actually benefitted from coming back to school for another year, despite being a 1st round player, because a lot of what he lacks can actually be improved upon. Now he can't fix his height or wingspan, but he could definitely improve his ball-handling, the sloppy turnovers, and his shooting with another year in college not hampered by Covid restrictions over the offseason. Hindsight is 20/20, though.
 
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#232
#232
cncchris33 said:
Yep, Keon is an example of a kid who probably could have actually benefitted from coming back to school for another year, despite being a 1st round player, because a lot of what he lacks can actually be improved upon. Now he can't fix his height or wingspan, but he could definitely improve his ball-handling, the sloppy turnovers, and his shooting with another year in college not hampered by Covid restrictions over the offseason. Hindsight is 20/20, though.
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I’ve wondered quite a bit recently as he’s slid down boards if he would’ve elected to return had those been his projections all along? Seems like most had him Top 10 pick and of course we were all saying you gotta go, but if he was getting told 20-30 like it’s looking possible he goes as would he have returned?
 
#233
#233
bleedingTNorange said:
I’ve wondered quite a bit recently as he’s slid down boards if he would’ve elected to return had those been his projections all along? Seems like most had him Top 10 pick and of course we were all saying you gotta go, but if he was getting told 20-30 like it’s looking possible he goes as would he have returned?
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Yeah, hard to turn it down when some people projected you as high as #6, overall, at the peak of his hype. But that was fool's gold, as it turns out, and he now is going to likely lose out on millions of dollars if he falls outside the lottery into 20th, or later, range. Sucks for him because I think he and his family probably valued the educational experience Tennessee offered, as well, so it wouldn't have surprised me, at all, if he had elected to return in light of a late 1st-rd grade as opposed to the idea that he was a near-certainty to go in the top 10.
 
#234
#234
cncchris33 said:
Yeah, hard to turn it down when some people projected you as high as #6, overall, at the peak of his hype. But that was fool's gold, as it turns out, and he now is going to likely lose out on millions of dollars if he falls outside the lottery into 20th, or later, range. Sucks for him because I think he and his family probably valued the educational experience Tennessee offered, as well, so it wouldn't have surprised me, at all, if he had elected to return in light of a late 1st-rd grade as opposed to the idea that he was a near-certainty to go in the top 10.
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Wonder what Barnes advised him to do? Maybe this is public Knowledge. I haven't seen it, or do they keep it private? Maybe Keon didn't care😄
 
#235
#235
bleedingTNorange said:
I’ve wondered quite a bit recently as he’s slid down boards if he would’ve elected to return had those been his projections all along? Seems like most had him Top 10 pick and of course we were all saying you gotta go, but if he was getting told 20-30 like it’s looking possible he goes as would he have returned?
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Not arguing one way or another but I won't feel too bad for him (#20 = $4.5M guaranteed 2yr contract and #30 = $3.2M guaranteed 2yr contract) and it's a very very low percentage of players that don't at least see their 3rd year and even 4th year picked up.

I understand all the woulda/coulda/shoulda but #10's $7.2M over 2yrs isn't enough to worry about risking another unpaid (well, semi-unpaid now for NIL) year on a -chance- he improves enough within the NCAA limitations to come back.

And this is me saying I wish he was here longer than 1 year. I just don't think getting drafted in the 1st rd, anywhere, is enough to say it was a bad decision. Now Springer on the other hand.......who knows. If he ends up in the 2nd, may have been better to return for another year or two. If he goes in the 1st, still a great decision. We'll find out tonight.

Edit: And that wasn't me arguing saying you were taking one side or the other, just throwing my opinion on the topic.
 
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#236
#236
bleedingTNorange said:
I’ve wondered quite a bit recently as he’s slid down boards if he would’ve elected to return had those been his projections all along? Seems like most had him Top 10 pick and of course we were all saying you gotta go, but if he was getting told 20-30 like it’s looking possible he goes as would he have returned?
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My understanding is that the NBA is very good about providing early and detailed feedback to players regarding where they will go, so hopefully the mock draft crew doesn’t have all the inside info. Found the below while looking into it.

Keon Johnson earned impressive feedback from OKC Thunder
 
#237
#237
JelloPuddinPup said:
Not arguing one way or another but I won't feel too bad for him (#20 = $4.5M guaranteed 2yr contract and #30 = $3.2M guaranteed 2yr contract) and it's a very very low percentage of players that don't at least see their 3rd year and even 4th year picked up.

I understand all the woulda/coulda/shoulda but #10's $7.2M over 2yrs isn't enough to worry about risking another unpaid (well, semi-unpaid now for NIL) year on a -chance- he improves enough within the NCAA limitations to come back.

And this is me saying I wish he was here longer than 1 year. I just don't think getting drafted in the 1st rd, anywhere, is enough to say it was a bad decision. Now Springer on the other hand.......who knows. If he ends up in the 2nd, may have been better to return for another year or two. If he goes in the 1st, still a great decision. We'll find out tonight.

Edit: And that wasn't me arguing saying you were taking one side or the other, just throwing my opinion on the topic.
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I agree with your thoughts. And I’ve also long thought you develop faster in the NBA than college.
 
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#238
#238
I'm predicting Keon and Springer both end up in LA. Keon to the Lakers at 22 and Springer to my favorite WC team, the Clippers at 25.
 
#240
#240
Volprofch05 said:
My understanding is that the NBA is very good about providing early and detailed feedback to players regarding where they will go, so hopefully the mock draft crew doesn’t have all the inside info. Found the below while looking into it.

Keon Johnson earned impressive feedback from OKC Thunder
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Makes sense. He fits their long term tanking plan. He's still in the infancy stage of learning to play guard and is a project with immense upside.
 
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#241
#241
The Dog said:
I'm predicting Keon and Springer both end up in LA. Keon to the Lakers at 22 and Springer to my favorite WC team, the Clippers at 25.
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I agree with that general range for both, though I’d bet the Lakers trade that 22nd pick for a vet
 
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#242
#242
cncchris33 said:
Yep, Keon is an example of a kid who probably could have actually benefitted from coming back to school for another year, despite being a 1st round player, because a lot of what he lacks can actually be improved upon. Now he can't fix his height or wingspan, but he could definitely improve his ball-handling, the sloppy turnovers, and his shooting with another year in college not hampered by Covid restrictions over the offseason. Hindsight is 20/20, though.
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He is still going to be a first round pick, it was absolutely the right move to leave
 
#243
#243
If you’re a guaranteed first round pick, you should absolutely, 100% leave.

Remember Tyler Smith?
 
#244
#244
zjcvols said:
If you’re a guaranteed first round pick, you should absolutely, 100% leave.

Remember Tyler Smith?
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Exactly. First round picks are fully guaranteed contracts. If you are a for sure first rounder, you take the money and run.

Now the 2nd round is a different story and I don't think it makes any sense to leave early for the 2nd. Unless you just hate school or can't stay eligible for one reason or another. Most of those guys just end up overseas and those options are always available.
 
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#245
#245
zjcvols said:
He is still going to be a first round pick, it was absolutely the right move to leave
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I didn’t say he made the wrong move. I just said he could have benefited from coming back for a second year because most of his red marks are fixable issues.
 
#246
#246
cncchris33 said:
I didn’t say he made the wrong move. I just said he could have benefited from coming back for a second year because most of his red marks are fixable issues.
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How? He’s not a #1 pick type talent. There isn’t really a difference between #7 or #18. Besides he would be better serve to improve his skills in the NBA.

If he was 6’6 with a 6’10 wingspan he’d be a top 8 pick. The problem isn’t talent or skills it’s that he is shorter than expected
 
#247
#247
zjcvols said:
He is still going to be a first round pick, it was absolutely the right move to leave
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I could understand someone projected late first round coming back to improve their stock.

That doesn't apply to Keon.
 
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#248
#248
zjcvols said:
How? He’s not a #1 pick type talent. There isn’t really a difference between #7 or #18. Besides he would be better serve to improve his skills in the NBA.

If he was 6’6 with a 6’10 wingspan he’d be a top 8 pick. The problem isn’t talent or skills it’s that he is shorter than expected
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Well the skills, or lack thereof, is a big part of the problem. If he had any major strength offensively he would still be a lock for the lottery.

But you are correct in that if he measured what everyone thought he would have, he would still be in the top 10.

My question then is why didn't he opt out of the combine? Him going to the combine wasn't pushing him up into the top 6, and he was projected around pick 8 or so. So there wasn't any real reward to even show up. Someone gave him poor advice.
 
#249
#249
Vols8086 said:
Well the skills, or lack thereof, is a big part of the problem. If he had any major strength offensively he would still be a lock for the lottery.

But you are correct in that if he measured what everyone thought he would have, he would still be in the top 10.

My question then is why didn't he opt out of the combine? Him going to the combine wasn't pushing him up into the top 6, and he was projected around pick 8 or so. So there wasn't any real reward to even show up. Someone gave him poor advice.
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I guess that plays a part, yeah sure if he could dribble or shoot like Steph that point is moot, but he doesn’t have that capability anyways. He’s not gonna develop that skill in college. Remember when people were like “oh Yves needs to come back and work on his dribbling” and yes COVID but he didn’t start taking the ball to the basket with his handles.

He was gonna have to get measured anyways most likely. Unless you’re a top, top pick teams want measurements. And they will take them during meets. He was gonna get measured anyways. And if he refused huge red flags would have come ip
 
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