Vols in NBA Draft

[rdk4121]

Pons can't guard 1-5.

Well he certainly could in college, obviously nba is different, but he could certainly guard some small ball 5s. Heck Marcus Morris has been starting at 5 for the Clippers this postseason, and he's not much bigger. He's obviously going to be better at guarding 3s and 4s, but I think he can realistically guard 1s and 2s as well.

 

[The Dog]

Well he certainly could in college, obviously nba is different, but he could certainly guard some small ball 5s. Heck Marcus Morris has been starting at 5 for the Clippers this postseason, and he's not much bigger. He's obviously going to be better at guarding 3s and 4s, but I think he can realistically guard 1s and 2s as well.

Well, Morris was starting at the 5 until Ayton lit 'em up and LA had to play Zubac, who has played, well. Clippers should be winning this series, at least tied. But, obviously I'm biased, PG13 is my boy (check the avi) and has won me more money than any player in the NBA on double/doubles alone.

 

[rdk4121]

Well, Morris was starting at the 5 until Ayton lit 'em up and LA had to play Zubac, who has played, well. Clippers should be winning this series, at least tied. But, obviously I'm biased, PG13 is my boy (check the avi) and has won me more money than any player in the NBA on double/doubles alone.

Yeah didn't work in this series, but it did work well in the Utah series. Obviously that's all matchups, but the idea is the same. Brandon is a similar case, he's played some small ball 5 for the Grizzlies and had some success, though he mainly plays the 4. Pons is quicker than him though, so I could see him playing some 3 assuming you had shooting around him.

 

[Vols8086]

Well he certainly could in college, obviously nba is different, but he could certainly guard some small ball 5s. Heck Marcus Morris has been starting at 5 for the Clippers this postseason, and he's not much bigger. He's obviously going to be better at guarding 3s and 4s, but I think he can realistically guard 1s and 2s as well.

You think Pons can guard 1s and 2s in the NBA? Based on what? What college player that went on to be a 1 or 2 in the NBA did Pons stifle in college?

Pons would get eaten alive trying to guard those guys. They would just isolate him defensively every possession and he wouldn't be able to keep up.

 

[rdk4121]

You think Pons can guard 1s and 2s in the NBA? Based on what? What college player that went on to be a 1 or 2 in the NBA did Pons stifle in college?

Pons would get eaten alive trying to guard those guys. They would just isolate him defensively every possession and he wouldn't be able to keep up.

How? He had to guard 3s and 4s (and even 5s at times) because we had no one else that could. It had nothing to do with his ability. He literally made his mark early in his career guarding 1s and 2s.



0:04 vs Nembhard
0:29 vs Quickley
0:38 vs Petty
1:12 vs Walker in the open court


Really just this whole video
0:26 vs Tre Mann (who is going to be a first rounder this year)
0:33 vs maybe Locke, can't really tell but he picks him up the 3 quarters court.
Opposite end of the spectrum, but 0:48 vs Jitobah who is listed at 285, but is probably bigger than that.
1:22 vs again a guard in the open court on a switch.
Granted these are just blocks, I'm certain there are plenty of examples of him switching out on guards that don't really make the highlight reals.


That one is the perfect example.
He is guarding Azubuike (a huge 5 even by NBA standards), and then he'll guard Dotson, who was Kansas's best player and a PG. Just watch and listen to the commentators talking about him.

Who if were just going to talk strength and agility, Pons finished 9th in Lane Agility Time (1st among PFs), 8th in shuttle run (2nd for PFs), 16th in Three quarter sprint (2nd for PFs). He was better than Keon and Jaden in almost every category, except Keon was 0.1 faster in three quarter sprint. Both are known to be lock down defenders as well. Obviously finishing 3rd in both standing and max vert doesn't hurt either. Nor does his wingspan that's over 7 ft. Heck he even had the lowest fat % in the entire combine for what it's worth.

So to recap, he's quicker and faster than a lot of guards, he jumps higher than pretty much anyone, and has a very good wingspan for his size, not to mention all the evidence that he can certainly defend guards. That's not even mentioning his shot blocking prowess and timing. He has pretty darn good defensive instincts as well for someone that was such a project coming out of France.

 

[Vols8086]

How? He had to guard 3s and 4s (and even 5s at times) because we had no one else that could. It had nothing to do with his ability. He literally made his mark early in his career guarding 1s and 2s.



0:04 vs Nembhard
0:29 vs Quickley
0:38 vs Petty
1:12 vs Walker in the open court


Really just this whole video
0:26 vs Tre Mann (who is going to be a first rounder this year)
0:33 vs maybe Locke, can't really tell but he picks him up the 3 quarters court.
Opposite end of the spectrum, but 0:48 vs Jitobah who is listed at 285, but is probably bigger than that.
1:22 vs again a guard in the open court on a switch.
Granted these are just blocks, I'm certain there are plenty of examples of him switching out on guards that don't really make the highlight reals.


That one is the perfect example.
He is guarding Azubuike (a huge 5 even by NBA standards), and then he'll guard Dotson, who was Kansas's best player and a PG. Just watch and listen to the commentators talking about him.

Who if were just going to talk strength and agility, Pons finished 9th in Lane Agility Time (1st among PFs), 8th in shuttle run (2nd for PFs), 16th in Three quarter sprint (2nd for PFs). He was better than Keon and Jaden in almost every category, except Keon was 0.1 faster in three quarter sprint. Both are known to be lock down defenders as well. Obviously finishing 3rd in both standing and max vert doesn't hurt either. Nor does his wingspan that's over 7 ft. Heck he even had the lowest fat % in the entire combine for what it's worth.

So to recap, he's quicker and faster than a lot of guards, he jumps higher than pretty much anyone, and has a very good wingspan for his size, not to mention all the evidence that he can certainly defend guards. That's not even mentioning his shot blocking prowess and timing. He has pretty darn good defensive instincts as well for someone that was such a project coming out of France.

Tre Mann blows by him, which is my point. He is a great shot blocker, but that won't be enough in the NBA. He will have to sit in a stance and stay in front of guys. He gets lost defensively because he just chases blocks. He cannot stay in front of 1s and 2s at the NBA level.

The NBA spreads everyone out so it won't be near as congested allowing Pons to just sit back and swat everything from the backside. He is a human highlight reel, but that doesn't make him a great defender.

 

[rdk4121]

Tre Mann blows by him, which is my point. He is a great shot blocker, but that won't be enough in the NBA. He will have to sit in a stance and stay in front of guys. He gets lost defensively because he just chases blocks. He cannot stay in front of 1s and 2s at the NBA level.

The NBA spreads everyone out so it won't be near as congested allowing Pons to just sit back and swat everything from the backside. He is a human highlight reel, but that doesn't make him a great defender.

You are just plain wrong. He was the main shot blocker, of course he chased blocks. He's certainly going to be more of a weak side shot blocker in the NBA, where he also excelled in college.

Even if you want to say Mann blew by him (which is certainly relative), he easily recovered and blocked his shot. Watch the Kansas game then, he locks up Dotson every time he's on him. He had a bad goaltend call as well against Garrett early in the game as well which was great one on one defense.

His stats, both in total stats and advanced stats say he is an excellent defender. He was even better this year than he was last year, when he won DPOY. The tape says he's an excellent defender. No one denying he's better suited to guard 3s and 4s, but he can guard 1-5 particularly in a switch situation. He has all the measurables to defend guards as well. I've given you examples, stats, and measurements, and you've provided nothing.

 

[Vols8086]

You are just plain wrong. He was the main shot blocker, of course he chased blocks. He's certainly going to be more of a weak side shot blocker in the NBA, where he also excelled in college.

Even if you want to say Mann blew by him (which is certainly relative), he easily recovered and blocked his shot. Watch the Kansas game then, he locks up Dotson every time he's on him. He had a bad goaltend call as well against Garrett early in the game as well which was great one on one defense.

His stats, both in total stats and advanced stats say he is an excellent defender. He was even better this year than he was last year, when he won DPOY. The tape says he's an excellent defender. No one denying he's better suited to guard 3s and 4s, but he can guard 1-5 particularly in a switch situation. He has all the measurables to defend guards as well. I've given you examples, stats, and measurements, and you've provided nothing.

You're not projecting this to the NBA though and not looking at any of the details at all. It's a very shallow look at the game. Let's just look at the Kansas game:

Saying Garrett was great one on one defense is laughable. Pons got blown by and in the NBA that will result in a dunk because everyone is a freak athlete at that level.

2:52 - Pons again gets beat, Vescovi with the hard help, easy catch and shoot. At the NBA level, guys are even more spaced out, so he won't get near as much help when he is on the perimeter.

3:00 - Pons is beat again. Thats a reverse layup or dunk in the NBA.

3:11 - Pretty standard screen and handoff action, Pons I think thought they were going to switch, but not sure whose fault. However, you'll see him get lost on things like this frequently thoughout the season.

7:13 - Blow by on the baseline.

9:51 - Again, Pons in no-mans land on the screen. It's a theme with him and has been for a big portion of his career.

He doesn't have good reps guarding on the perimeter like you are suggesting. He has never been a great on ball defender or team defender. However his freak athleticism and ability to block shots erases a lot of mistakes in college but he won't be able to rely on that in the NBA. Not to mention college doesn't have a defensive 3 seconds, which he would have been called for more than a few times had there been one.

 

[omghulkhands]

There are a lot of players in the NBA who are basically unguardable 1v1

Take the Clippers for instance. A guy like PG or Leonard is gonna get his. Where you really lose is letting Reggie Jackson or Terrence Mann get points. Those guys you can’t afford to double team or switch or over help without totally breaking down your defense from time to time.

Idk that Pons can guard elite NBA ball handlers. But really, who can?

 

[The Dog]

Apparently, Springer has had personal workouts with the Lakers, Knicks, Raptors and Suns. I believe all 3 but the Raptors have picks in the 20s or damn close

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

Apparently, Springer has had personal workouts with the Lakers, Knicks, Raptors and Suns. I believe all 3 but the Raptors have picks in the 20s or damn close

Jaden would look dang good in a Knicks or a Lakers uniform. I can’t remember if a former Vol has worn the LA gold, but 3 of the all-time greats played home games at MSG.

 

[The Dog]

Jaden would look dang good in a Knicks or a Lakers uniform. I can’t remember if a former Vol has worn the LA gold, but 3 of the all-time greats played home games at MSG.

All right TGO, King and Houston, I know. Who is the 3rd ?

 

[The Dog]

Ernie ?
Edit: yeah Ernie, how could I forget that

 

[The Dog]

Well, I was 10ish

Edit: 11-15, actually

 

[The Dog]

Yeah didn't work in this series, but it did work well in the Utah series. Obviously that's all matchups, but the idea is the same. Brandon is a similar case, he's played some small ball 5 for the Grizzlies and had some success, though he mainly plays the 4. Pons is quicker than him though, so I could see him playing some 3 assuming you had shooting around him.

Working tonight, Morris is ballin' out, early and I love it. Zubac is out with a bad knee

 

[rdk4121]

You're not projecting this to the NBA though and not looking at any of the details at all. It's a very shallow look at the game. Let's just look at the Kansas game:

Saying Garrett was great one on one defense is laughable. Pons got blown by and in the NBA that will result in a dunk because everyone is a freak athlete at that level.

2:52 - Pons again gets beat, Vescovi with the hard help, easy catch and shoot. At the NBA level, guys are even more spaced out, so he won't get near as much help when he is on the perimeter.

3:00 - Pons is beat again. Thats a reverse layup or dunk in the NBA.

3:11 - Pretty standard screen and handoff action, Pons I think thought they were going to switch, but not sure whose fault. However, you'll see him get lost on things like this frequently thoughout the season.

7:13 - Blow by on the baseline.

9:51 - Again, Pons in no-mans land on the screen. It's a theme with him and has been for a big portion of his career.

He doesn't have good reps guarding on the perimeter like you are suggesting. He has never been a great on ball defender or team defender. However his freak athleticism and ability to block shots erases a lot of mistakes in college but he won't be able to rely on that in the NBA. Not to mention college doesn't have a defensive 3 seconds, which he would have been called for more than a few times had there been one.

You are really just wrong on pretty much every single one of your observations, it is a little mind boggling. You can literally listen to Jay Bilas talk about Pons defensive acumen in the highlight real.

The Garrett rep wasn't some amazing rep I guess, but it shows his great recovery skills and he made what could have been a clean block.

Vescovi helped off for no reason, Pons had recovered and would've easily kept him in front of him. Freshman Vescovi was over aggressive on help D for no real reason.

Next play, as if. That's getting blocked, he was already in his stance ready to block that when Dotson fumbled it. Dotson knew that he wasn't going to get that off so he changed his mind and lost the ball.

Next play, that looks like a simple switch for Fulky, I can't tell you why he didn't switch that, but no way to tell whose fault it really is.

Next play, I wouldn't say blow by, he looked like he was trying to switch the dribble hand off, but Garrett denied the screen and drives back door. Now that one is not good recognition, but it is not how you described it at all. That does go to your point about getting lost on things, but literally every player makes mistakes like that.

Next play, what are you talking about. He fronted and forces Azubuike to catch the ball further out on the post up, then he levels off Dotson off the screen to prevent him from driving baseline, which forces Dotson into a step back fade away three pointer. Sure he could have been a little closer on the contest, and maybe a NBA star can make that shot, but those are big maybes.

He's not a perfect defender, but he's incredibly versatile. Not being the team's primary shot blocker will help a lot on not having to clean up everyone's messes, therefore he can stay near his man more often. Same thing with defensive 3 seconds. You're really criticizing him for a rule that doesn't exist in college? That's not exactly a hard one to figure out, I mean like most rookies I'm sure he'll get caught a few times, but who cares. Again he'll be near his man more often theoretically so he probably won't be camped out in the lane as much. I've given you plenty of examples of good defense vs guards, you gave me like 1 or maybe 2 examples of him not playing good defense. He'll have to play smarter a times, but he will be able to switch on any screen on the NBA level. He just needs to be less of a liability on offense, and become a little bit better of a rebounder, and he could have a good career.

 

[MinisterofDef#92]

The crux of your intent is to show that the NBA is hurting itself because of “poor ratings” when they’ve been knocking it out of the park — league is making more money than ever, players earning more than ever, and team owners are seeing their investments explode in value. Domestic TV ratings have cratered since cable subscriptions have also cratered, and that trend can be tracked in every sport. Singling out the TV ratings for the NBA without putting them into context has been the number one way of making a bad faith argument about the health of the league. Nobody who’s making boatloads of money from pro basketball is worrying about it.

Wrong...the crux of my argument is that interest in the NBA in the US has declined drastically for almost a decade (as I clearly stated multiple times...lol). You can create strawman arguments and change the subject all you like. Also, some of the biggest streaming services like YoutubeTV are included in Nielsen analytics.

 

[kckempf]

Wrong...the crux of my argument is that interest in the NBA in the US has declined drastically for almost a decade (as I clearly stated multiple times...lol). You can create strawman arguments and change the subject all you like. Also, some of the biggest streaming services like YoutubeTV are included in Nielsen analytics.

Your entire point was that the prevailing sentiment over the NBA is boredom. Based on the performance of the NBA, they’re having no trouble generating interest. Between you and the advertisers shelling out big bucks for NBA stars and rights, I feel the advertisers have a better idea of how interesting it is.

 

[MinisterofDef#92]

Your entire point was that the prevailing sentiment over the NBA is boredom. Based on the performance of the NBA, they’re having no trouble generating interest. Between you and the advertisers shelling out big bucks for NBA stars and rights, I feel the advertisers have a better idea of how interesting it is.

Keep on putting words in my mouth and spinning to "win" the argument if that helps your self-esteem...lol. US interest has declined overall as global interest/potential ahs never been higher but keep mixing the two aspects. I would say your naivete over the economics of programming in the age of heightened bandwidth supply would be funny if it wasn't so misguided.

 

[kckempf]

Keep on putting words in my mouth and spinning to "win" the argument if that helps your self-esteem...lol. US interest has declined overall as global interest/potential ahs never been higher but keep mixing the two aspects. I would say your naivete over the economics of programming in the age of heightened bandwidth supply would be funny if it wasn't so misguided.

If you can’t remember what you said I have no patience to repeat it to you. Suffice to say your expression of disinterest doesn’t line up with the performance of the league.

 

[MinisterofDef#92]

If you can’t remember what you said I have no patience to repeat it to you. Suffice to say your expression of disinterest doesn’t line up with the performance of the league.

Not surprising when one tries continually to conflate disparate items and spin discussions...lol

 

[n_huffhines]

That sums up the the prevailing sentiment very well given how their ratings have cratered and are now about on par with the Golden Globes which wasn't even televised this year...lol

Western conference finals got 5m viewers on average and the best player is out.

 

[n_huffhines]

"ABC has seen a 45 percent decrease since the 2011-12 season, while the TNT ratings went down 40 percent, followed by ESPN still dropping a whopping 20 percent." - NBA Ratings Sink As Polls Show People Tired Of Political, 'Social Justice' Messaging

"...NBA has averaged 14 MM views per game this year, down 13% headed into final week of the season across ESPN, ABC, and TNT compared to Covid-interrupted 2019-2020 season." - Sports Business Journal ()

My original point is that US interest in the NBA has declined which is clear based on the data...there has seemingly been an uptick in the postseason play but, again, compared to historic lows. We will see how the ratings for the Finals come in.

You're ignoring the right data. Viewership is down across the board but the NBA's share is up

 

[n_huffhines]

He will definitely get drafted...still think he should've gone pro last year.

 

[n_huffhines]

There are a lot of players in the NBA who are basically unguardable 1v1

Take the Clippers for instance. A guy like PG or Leonard is gonna get his. Where you really lose is letting Reggie Jackson or Terrence Mann get points. Those guys you can’t afford to double team or switch or over help without totally breaking down your defense from time to time.

Idk that Pons can guard elite NBA ball handlers. But really, who can?

Yeah, it's more about being good enough that they're not trying to hunt you as a mismatch.