Vols in NBA Draft

#151
#151
MinisterofDef#92 said:
Not surprising when one tries continually to conflate disparate items and spin discussions...lol
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One tactic of debate that you'd use if you don't have a point is to stipulate that the argument is over a narrow band of data that would be irrelevant outside of the broader context. If your entire point requires you to ignore the results in favor of worrying over a single data point, you're probably trying your best not to engage on the actual subject.
 
#152
#152
If Johnson develops his shot beyond the arc, he'll be a superstar in the league. He already has a stellar mid-range game.
 
#155
#155
kckempf said:
One tactic of debate that you'd use if you don't have a point is to stipulate that the argument is over a narrow band of data that would be irrelevant outside of the broader context. If your entire point requires you to ignore the results in favor of worrying over a single data point, you're probably trying your best not to engage on the actual subject.
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One tactic of debate is constantly spew bullsh*t, keep changing parameters, or put words in other people's mouths...lol.
 
#156
#156
MinisterofDef#92 said:
One tactic of debate is constantly spew bullsh*t, keep changing parameters, or put words in other people's mouths...lol.
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I am curious, what's the relevance of your narrow focus? What exactly do the TV ratings show that you feel are self-evidently important but won't elucidate? It isn't the health of the league or the value of the players and teams to sponsors.
 
#158
#158
kckempf said:
One tactic of debate that you'd use if you don't have a point is to stipulate that the argument is over a narrow band of data that would be irrelevant outside of the broader context. If your entire point requires you to ignore the results in favor of worrying over a single data point, you're probably trying your best not to engage on the actual subject.
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Take it to the political forum.
 
#164
#164
Hollinger at theathletic big board posted today:

Keon #18

Choice quotes:

Most projections have him in the lottery, but I can’t quite get as excited about Johnson as my peers.

Johnson is a high flier who might have the best YouTube dunk clips of any prospect and seems to have decent lateral mobility. But man, there are warts aplenty here. He’s 6-foot-5 but often looked more like an undersized power forward than a shooting guard.

The best thing you could say about his jumper is that he gets into it easily off the dribble and can elevate and release it over nearly anybody. A lot of times you wish he couldn’t.

It’s possible being away from a constipated Tennessee offense that seemed intent on strangling itself will give Johnson more opportunities to shine.

Springer #20

Doesn't mention the word defense for Keon, but about Springer says:

Whatever you think of his offensive game, the defense was legit.
 
#165
#165
Volprofch05 said:
Hollinger at theathletic big board posted today:

Keon #18

Choice quotes:

Most projections have him in the lottery, but I can’t quite get as excited about Johnson as my peers.

Johnson is a high flier who might have the best YouTube dunk clips of any prospect and seems to have decent lateral mobility. But man, there are warts aplenty here. He’s 6-foot-5 but often looked more like an undersized power forward than a shooting guard.

The best thing you could say about his jumper is that he gets into it easily off the dribble and can elevate and release it over nearly anybody. A lot of times you wish he couldn’t.

It’s possible being away from a constipated Tennessee offense that seemed intent on strangling itself will give Johnson more opportunities to shine.

Springer #20

Doesn't mention the word defense for Keon, but about Springer says:

Whatever you think of his offensive game, the defense was legit.
Click to expand...

This guy doesn't sugarcoat it. He's absolutely right about Keon IMO
 
#168
#168
Volprofch05 said:
Hollinger at theathletic big board posted today:

Keon #18

Choice quotes:

Most projections have him in the lottery, but I can’t quite get as excited about Johnson as my peers.

Johnson is a high flier who might have the best YouTube dunk clips of any prospect and seems to have decent lateral mobility. But man, there are warts aplenty here. He’s 6-foot-5 but often looked more like an undersized power forward than a shooting guard.

The best thing you could say about his jumper is that he gets into it easily off the dribble and can elevate and release it over nearly anybody. A lot of times you wish he couldn’t.

It’s possible being away from a constipated Tennessee offense that seemed intent on strangling itself will give Johnson more opportunities to shine.

Springer #20

Doesn't mention the word defense for Keon, but about Springer says:

Whatever you think of his offensive game, the defense was legit.
Click to expand...

Teams are going to take him mid lottery because they know he's raw. Most 19 YO's are nowhere near a finished product.
 
#170
#170
I'm hoping if Keon falls at all that the Grizzlies are the one to pick him up. Obviously he's got some offensive problems, but he should still be really great in transition and as a cutter, and he can attack people off the dribble. I've seen people compare him to a smaller Kawhi, and I'll say just go look at his college stats and see the similarities. He's a physical freak with a unmatched intensity on the court. Sure he'll need time to develop, but he's going to be legit.
 
#171
#171
vols 30 said:
This guy doesn't sugarcoat it. He's absolutely right about Keon IMO
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I understand that there are criticisms, but this would be a rare case where a player is consistently mocked in the top ten, then tests off the charts at the combine, and ends up dropping. I also think a thorough evaluation of Keon would at least mention defensive ability at some point.
 
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#172
#172
Volprofch05 said:
Hollinger at theathletic big board posted today:

Keon #18

Choice quotes:

Most projections have him in the lottery, but I can’t quite get as excited about Johnson as my peers.

Johnson is a high flier who might have the best YouTube dunk clips of any prospect and seems to have decent lateral mobility. But man, there are warts aplenty here. He’s 6-foot-5 but often looked more like an undersized power forward than a shooting guard.

The best thing you could say about his jumper is that he gets into it easily off the dribble and can elevate and release it over nearly anybody. A lot of times you wish he couldn’t.

It’s possible being away from a constipated Tennessee offense that seemed intent on strangling itself will give Johnson more opportunities to shine.

Springer #20

Doesn't mention the word defense for Keon, but about Springer says:

Whatever you think of his offensive game, the defense was legit.
Click to expand...

This is sometimes my issue with mock/draft guys…they don’t fully know the situation of guys. Keon plays like an undersized power forward because he didn’t play guard in high school so he doesn’t have those skills yet.

Also a 6-5 guard that plays like an undersized power forward isn’t a bad thing. You need athletes that can guard multiple positions and rebound like crazy with the smaller, fast paced game
 
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#173
#173
zjcvols said:
This is sometimes my issue with mock/draft guys…they don’t fully know the situation of guys. Keon plays like an undersized power forward because he didn’t play guard in high school so he doesn’t have those skills yet.

Also a 6-5 guard that plays like an undersized power forward isn’t a bad thing. You need athletes that can guard multiple positions and rebound like crazy with the smaller, fast paced game
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The issue is that he isn't 6'5. He measure at 6'3.5" without shoes at the combine and had very underwhelming measurements in both his wingspan and standing reach. I think he had the 5th shortest standing reach and was bottom 15 in wingspan for the entire combine. He is super athletic obviously, but those numbers are going to give some teams pause on just how much he can actually switch and be effective. Especially amongst larger players.

Unfortunately his measurements make him look more like a PG but I don't ever see him being good enough to play that in the NBA. So now he is an undersized 2 guard or wing (however you want to describe it) and raw athletic wings are pretty easy to find in today's world. I think he is either going to boom or bust. I don't really see much inbetween for him to be honest. He really needs to go somewhere with a great track record of developing guys. The Spurs, Warriors, or Thunder would be great spots for him that are realistic.
 
#174
#174
Vols8086 said:
The issue is that he isn't 6'5. He measure at 6'3.5" without shoes at the combine and had very underwhelming measurements in both his wingspan and standing reach. I think he had the 5th shortest standing reach and was bottom 15 in wingspan for the entire combine. He is super athletic obviously, but those numbers are going to give some teams pause on just how much he can actually switch and be effective. Especially amongst larger players.

Unfortunately his measurements make him look more like a PG but I don't ever see him being good enough to play that in the NBA. So now he is an undersized 2 guard or wing (however you want to describe it) and raw athletic wings are pretty easy to find in today's world. I think he is either going to boom or bust. I don't really see much inbetween for him to be honest. He really needs to go somewhere with a great track record of developing guys. The Spurs, Warriors, or Thunder would be great spots for him that are realistic.
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So yes there are some overall questions about Keon’s game. But…

1) even with a smaller wingspan he’s shown in college with his athleticism and want-to he can guard bigger players. There’s plenty of guards 6’5 and under he can guard.

2) Hes shown some passing and dribbling ability. He can’t be a full time starter at PG, but I still think he can be fine handling the ball even if he’s exclusively a wing.

3) The big thing with him is will he shoot. Whether he’s 6’3.5, 6’6 or 6’0 that’s the big thing about his upside. If he develops into an above average three point shooter, he will be a 25-30 mpg player in the NBA
 
#175
#175
Vols8086 said:
The issue is that he isn't 6'5. He measure at 6'3.5" without shoes at the combine and had very underwhelming measurements in both his wingspan and standing reach. I think he had the 5th shortest standing reach and was bottom 15 in wingspan for the entire combine. He is super athletic obviously, but those numbers are going to give some teams pause on just how much he can actually switch and be effective. Especially amongst larger players.

Unfortunately his measurements make him look more like a PG but I don't ever see him being good enough to play that in the NBA. So now he is an undersized 2 guard or wing (however you want to describe it) and raw athletic wings are pretty easy to find in today's world. I think he is either going to boom or bust. I don't really see much inbetween for him to be honest. He really needs to go somewhere with a great track record of developing guys. The Spurs, Warriors, or Thunder would be great spots for him that are realistic.
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Trust me, scouts were more excited to find out his wingspan is 7' than they were disappointed that he's only 6' 3.5". He still might grow an inch or two
 
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