War in Ukraine

#2,929
#2,929
allvol123 said:
Lol. Ok.
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It's pretty obvious Russia is planning something but it's not our war to fight. It's up to the Ukraine to determine its fate. I feel sorry for the defenseless citizens who are going to be caught in the middle but I wouldn't send my son or daughter to fight and die there. If it turns out to be the precursor for WW3, I wouldn't be opposed to volunteering myself but I couldn't send someone else to fight in my sted if I am not willing to do so myself. That is assuming the military would accept a mid 40's guy in decent shape
 
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#2,930
#2,930
landscapingvol said:
It's pretty obvious Russia is planning something but it's not our war to fight. It's up to the Ukraine to determine its fate. I feel sorry for the defenseless citizens who are going to be caught in the middle but I wouldn't send my son or daughter to fight and die there. If it turns out to be the precursor for WW3, I wouldn't be opposed to volunteering myself but I couldn't send someone else to fight in my sted if I am not willing to do so myself. That is assuming the military would accept a mid 40's guy in decent shape
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Not even going down that road. Just having him own up to what is going down.
 
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#2,931
#2,931
lawgator1 said:
Yup. Not like the guy was right there and saw first hand Trump's obsession with pleasing Putin.
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Do you live in the same reality as the rest of us? Everything that I have seen since I was old enough to care has been our leaders appeasing the Russians in some way. How thick do you have to be to believe that Trump was any different than Clinton, Bush, Obama and Biden?
 
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#2,932
#2,932
Here's a thought: Ukraine should immediately concede to Russia's demands that Ukraine never joins NATO. Promise Putin that you'd never do it. Give him a pinky swear and everything. Sign an accord, put your John Hancock on a treaty, build a 60 foot bronze statue of Putin. Whatever.

Then build up your defense capabilities for the next 5 years or so. Integrate your economy more and more into the West. If Putin attacks Ukraine AFTER it concedes to its demands, it would likely cause borderline-NATO countries (e.g. Finland, Sweden) to question their safety, and result in their joining NATO. This would have the exact opposite effect of what Putin is trying to achieve.

Then 5 years from now, presuming Putin doesn't attack Ukraine, it works behind the scenes to get NATO to extend an offer to Ukraine for admittance which is immediately accepted.

When Russia protests that Ukraine reneged on its promise, point out that Russia reneged on the Budapest Memorium in 1994 whereupon Russia promised to respect Ukraine's territorial integrity in exchange for Ukraine ridding itself of nuclear missiles.

Now Ukraine is protected by Section 5 guarantees against Russia, and Putin would risk a full-scale NATO response if he were to attack Ukraine.

Crisis averted today and can kicked down road for possible conflict 5 years from now.
 
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#2,935
#2,935
MontyPython said:
Here's a thought: Ukraine should immediately concede to Russia's demands that Ukraine never joins NATO. Promise Putin that you'd never do it. Give him a pinky swear and everything. Sign an accord, put your John Hancock on a treaty, build a 60 foot bronze statue of Putin. Whatever.

Then build up your defense capabilities for the next 5 years or so. Integrate your economy more and more into the West. If Putin attacks Ukraine AFTER it concedes to its demands, it would likely cause borderline-NATO countries (e.g. Finland, Sweden) to question their safety, and result in their joining NATO. This would have the exact opposite effect of what Putin is trying to achieve.

Then 5 years from now, presuming Putin doesn't attack Ukraine, it works behind the scenes to get NATO to extend an offer to Ukraine for admittance which is immediately accepted.

When Russia protests that Ukraine reneged on its promise, point out that Russia reneged on the Budapest Memorium in 1994 whereupon Russia promised to respect Ukraine's territorial integrity in exchange for Ukraine ridding itself of nuclear missiles.

Now Ukraine is protected by Section 5 guarantees against Russia, and Putin would risk a full-scale NATO response if he were to attack Ukraine.

Crisis averted today and can kicked down road for possible conflict 5 years from now.
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The problem with this is that it assumes Putin is serious when he says this is all just about Russian security. It isn't. What he wants is Ukraine. He's not going to wait for Ukraine to continue to integrate themselves with the West and democratic governments. He's going to start a war, blame other people, and whine about Russophobia when he's punished.
 
#2,936
#2,936
tvolsfan said:
The problem with this is that it assumes Putin is serious when he says this is all just about Russian security. It isn't. What he wants is Ukraine. He's not going to wait for Ukraine to continue to integrate themselves with the West and democratic governments. He's going to start a war, blame other people, and whine about Russophobia when he's punished.
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You're probably right that he wants to get the band back together and be big, bad USSR. But conceding to his demands now will lay such truth bare.
 
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#2,940
#2,940
NurseGoodVol said:
All the preludes to war doesn’t necessarily mean it will happen.
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Zelensky is either gaslighting us or really believes that the US is pumping fear. For a country that is at the brink of war, it is odd that he would want to have talks with Biden to calm him down as opposed to having a meeting with Putin.
 
#2,943
#2,943
Rasputin_Vol said:
Zelensky is either gaslighting us or really believes that the US is pumping fear. For a country that is at the brink of war, it is odd that he would want to have talks with Biden to calm him down as opposed to having a meeting with Putin.
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He’s walking a tightrope. Big money in both Ukraine and the US are lobbying for an invasion of the Donbass. His future as President relies on war and not holding up his end of Minsk 2, imo.
 
#2,944
#2,944
Poll: Will Russia Invade Ukraine?

The results show no appetite among the experts for direct military action against Russian forces; fewer than 3 percent of respondents selected this option. The IR scholars’ foreign-policy tool of choice appears to be sanctions: Nearly 90 percent of respondents advocate the use of sanctions against Russia in the event of an invasion.

Respondents were also widely supportive of so-called lethal aid, with 73 percent saying the U.S. should send additional arms and military supplies to Ukraine. A significant minority (41 percent) also support initiating offensive cyberoperations against Russian military forces, and 27 percent of respondents said the United States should send military forces to the wider region.

Finally, 22 percent of scholars say the United States should “formally guarantee the territorial integrity of Ukraine.” This finding is difficult to interpret, especially given the nearly unanimous opposition to the use of direct military force. A formal guarantee could mean granting Ukraine NATO membership, but it could also simply mean continuing the status quo. The United States (and all United Nations member states) already formally recognize the territorial integrity of other member states.
 
#2,945
#2,945
This thing is looking more and more like it ain't gonna happen. Putin & Co. is trying to stretch this out as long as possible so he can hold something out as a "concession" from NATO.
 
#2,947
#2,947
headhunter15 said:
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The fact that Ukraine is unprepared for a Russian invasion speaks volumes about the government of Ukraine. This animosity didn't just brew overnight and Russia has been threatening them for the last decade. One of the basic principles of its government should be to protect them as best as possible from a Russian invasion or at least have well developed plans that will inflict heavy casualties on the Russians. Take Afghanistan for example, they have very little military funding yet they have inflicted very heavy casualties on multiple invaders. Part of that is because of the terrain but part of it is they are well aware that they don't have the funding to go toe to toe with a major military power and have embraced its role as a guerilla force. I hope Ukraine has embraced that notion and is not trying to fight a conventional war against the Russians. It won't be successful and I don't believe NATO will provide any real military support other than containment of the conflict to Ukraine.
 
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#2,948
#2,948
05_never_again said:
This thing is looking more and more like it ain't gonna happen. Putin & Co. is trying to stretch this out as long as possible so he can hold something out as a "concession" from NATO.
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It's possible the US, UK really playing up the immediate attack stuff is a way of calling his bluff, indicating they're done negotiating.
 
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