War in Ukraine

#3,352
#3,352
Pacer92 said:
I’m positive, if the people were given the choice to leave the EU, they would leave...regardless of any cherry picked poll you link. Remember those MSM poll predictions prior to the vote of Brexit?
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Those poll predictions predicted a close vote. Not sure why you think they were far off.

What evidence do you have that the Polish people want out?
 
#3,356
#3,356
Pacer92 said:
I’m sure they would if they could. Did you see where our biggest EU ally voted to leave this corrupt institution back a few years ago...or did you miss that?

Making moves? Inside their own country? Man, the nerve of those dirty Ruski’s..
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Uh you remember when those moves inside their own country resulted in some moved borders dont you? Donbas, Crimea, Moldova, Georgia, Azerbaijan, Chechnya. Even you two cant pretend Russia has just been sitting there respecting borders since 1989

It's not like these guys are out touring the Russian tundra in squads. They have moved an entire army(ies) to the Ukrainian border. And previous similar moves just 7 years ago in the same country we are discussing. Yeah they are just being paranoid. We cant even have a ship sail west of Hawaii without you two going off on American Aggression. But Russia parks a couple hundred thousand right on a border and dont bat an eye
 
#3,359
#3,359
Rasputin_Vol said:
Why in writing? We gave our word. Does our word (the word of The United States) not mean anything?
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It is disputed that we gave them our word, but nobody's word means a damn thing in negotiations at that level anyway. These aren't discussions with your buddies at the bar or a cookout.

I wouldn't enter into any kind of business deal, even if it involved a relatively small amount of money with somebody I knew pretty well, without getting something in writing. A $25 bet on a ballgame, sure, but not any kind of business negotiation. How old are you, four?
 
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#3,360
#3,360
tvolsfan said:
Those poll predictions predicted a close vote. Not sure why you think they were far off.

What evidence do you have that the Polish people want out?
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Those polls were wrong. Because most polls promoted in media...there is an agenda to persuade behind it...

I don’t have a poll to post. I just know that it probably will never happen because of the geopolitical sphere it is in. However, the main reason I think they would vote to leave is the conservative stance a lot of European countries and people have...it flies in the face of an ever liberalized EU...
 
#3,362
#3,362
One consequence of Putin's demands and threatening behavior will be an increase in armaments among NATO nations. We see this happening already, with Poland on point, "The planned deal would include 250 Abrams main battle tanks, 250 short-range jamming systems, 26 combat recovery vehicles, almost 800 machines guns and more, a press release from the U.S. State Department said."

Poland Buys $6B of U.S. Military Gear as Russian Troops Sit Near Its Border
 
#3,365
#3,365
Pacer92 said:
Those polls were wrong. Because most polls promoted in media...there is an agenda to persuade behind it...

I don’t have a poll to post. I just know that it probably will never happen because of the geopolitical sphere it is in. However, the main reason I think they would vote to leave is the conservative stance a lot of European countries and people have...it flies in the face of an ever liberalized EU...
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Somehow, I suspect if a poll showed Poland wanted to leave, you wouldn't hesitate to post it.
 
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#3,366
#3,366
Rasputin_Vol said:
We're the exceptional nation, though. We should be the example to all nations.
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How in the hell can you expect the word of 1 SoS to be held to when it was never written down or even recorded, it's just hearsay. Things change, circumstances change so without a treaty Bakers word means jack ****. Would you expect future administrations be bound by the (supposed) word of Hillary Clinton in perpetuity?
 
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#3,367
#3,367
05_never_again said:
It is disputed that we gave them our word, but nobody's word means a damn thing in negotiations at that level anyway. These aren't discussions with your buddies at the bar or a cookout.

I wouldn't enter into any kind of business deal, even if it involved a relatively small amount of money with somebody I knew pretty well, without getting something in writing. A $25 bet on a ballgame, sure, but not any kind of business negotiation. How old are you, four?
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does a VN post count as "in writing"?
 
#3,368
#3,368
hog88 said:
How in the hell can you expect the word of 1 SoS to be held to when it was never written down or even recorded, it's just hearsay. Things change, circumstances change so without a treaty Bakers word means jack ****. Would you expect future administrations be bound by the (supposed) word of Hillary Clinton in perpetuity?
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Think about the argument he's making...the United States is terrible because it is an exceptional nation (but run by parasites and vultures) whose word is supposed to mean something, and we supposedly reneged.

It's a hilarious, mind-bending argument that internally contradicts itself like 3 or 4 times as you're explaining it.
 
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#3,371
#3,371
05_never_again said:
It is disputed that we gave them our word, but nobody's word means a damn thing in negotiations at that level anyway. These aren't discussions with your buddies at the bar or a cookout.
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No, it isn't disputed. Those conversations were had with many people involved during the Germany Reunification agreements.

05_never_again said:
I wouldn't enter into any kind of business deal, even if it involved a relatively small amount of money with somebody I knew pretty well, without getting something in writing. A $25 bet on a ballgame, sure, but not any kind of business negotiation. How old are you, four?
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So to be clear, if you made a verbal agreement to pay me $25 for whatever reason, you wouldn't feel obligated to pay me because it wasn't in writing?
 
#3,372
#3,372
Rasputin_Vol said:
No, it isn't disputed. Those conversations were had with many people involved during the Germany Reunification agreements.


So to be clear, if you made a verbal agreement to pay me $25 for whatever reason, you wouldn't feel obligated to pay me because it wasn't in writing?
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The $25 is an arrangement between two individuals. Where you assume both have access to $25 that they are allowed to use as they desire.

We don’t have a King. People can’t make verbal promises.
 
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#3,373
#3,373
Rasputin_Vol said:
No, it isn't disputed. Those conversations were had with many people involved during the Germany Reunification agreements.


So to be clear, if you made a verbal agreement to pay me $25 for whatever reason, you wouldn't feel obligated to pay me because it wasn't in writing?
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Yes, it is disputed. One side says it happened, the other says it didn't. That's the definition of "disputed."

If you're really comparing a $25 bet to an international negotiation about the expansion of a multi-national military alliance, I'm not sure what to tell you. Isn't getting anything of a serious nature secured in writing, especially when the topic is extremely complicated and circumstances are sure to change as time goes on, common sense?

If I was entering into a serious (i.e., not a $25 bet) negotiation with someone, I'd want the agreement in writing. Yes, I'd feel obligated to pay the $25 bet even if it wasn't in writing. C'mon dude. You're a smart guy but you're acting like you have a naive child's understanding of the world right now to make this argument work.
 
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#3,374
#3,374
allvol123 said:
The $25 is an arrangement between two individuals. Where you assume both have access to $25 that they are allowed to use as they desire.

We don’t have a King. People can’t make verbal promises.
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What? You're saying the security of Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania can't be permanently compromised by something a guy may or may not have said in 1991?
 
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#3,375
#3,375
Rasputin_Vol said:
No, it isn't disputed. Those conversations were had with many people involved during the Germany Reunification agreements.


So to be clear, if you made a verbal agreement to pay me $25 for whatever reason, you wouldn't feel obligated to pay me because it wasn't in writing?
Click to expand...

If he agreed that I would pay you $25 a year for life and it wasn't in writing and agreed to by me I wouldn't feel any obligation to pay.
 
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