War in Ukraine

#37,801
#37,801
Rasputin_Vol said:
Ukraine needs $9 billion in foreign aid per month, top Zelensky adviser says
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Oleg Ustenko says the new figure is needed to plug the Ukrainian government's budget shortfall, as well as provide emergency shelter for refugees and housing repairs and a basic minimum income for those who have lost their jobs, according to the Financial Times. The total is far greater than the previous figure given last month of $5 billion per month.
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On Tuesday, Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen announced that an additional $1.7 billion in direct financial aid would be provided to the Ukrainian government. "This aid will help Ukraine’s democratic government provide essential services for the people of Ukraine," she said.
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What about our budget shortfalls here in America and the rest of The West? I swear, you Ukrainiacs still don't see this has nothing to do with the Ukrainian people. This is a giant money pit that the MIC, politicians and other connected individuals are going to just drag out for as long as they can.
 
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#37,802
#37,802
BreatheUT said:
Isn't Ukraine supposed to be democratic while Russia is communist? I don't know the details of what these channels were promoting and it sounds like there was never a case laid out to prove the claims made by the government. Let me double check the article.
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Sooooooo Russia actually claims to be Democratic now also. Remember Pootin is “elected”? I read your article. It’s a tough calll. Ukraine looks like they’re trying to walk a fine line while no Russia isn’t even faking that. My take on the article is the journalism professionals in the country want to see the evidence on why these channels were taken off the air but Ukraine isn’t this far forth coming or wasn’t at the time of writing that article? That seems like a reasonable stance from the journalists position too. But I’d submit the fact that they are even having that exchange shows a much more significant openness in journalistic freedoms than “Democratic” Russia. I’d hope they continue to press the Ukrainian government on journalistic freedom that is their job.
 
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#37,804
#37,804
NorthDallas40 said:
Sooooooo Russia actually claims to be Democratic now also. Remember Pootin is “elected”? I read your article. It’s a tough calll. Ukraine looks like they’re trying to walk a fine line while no Russia isn’t even faking that. My take on the article is the journalism professionals in the country want to see the evidence on why these channels were taken off the air but Ukraine isn’t this far forth coming or wasn’t at the time of writing that article? That seems like a reasonable stance from the journalists position too. But I’d submit the fact that they are even having that exchange shows a much more significant openness in journalistic freedoms than “Democratic” Russia. I’d hope they continue to press the Ukrainian government on journalistic freedom that is their job.
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I think you misunderstood my first sentence. I was saying Ukraine supposed to have some democratic style leanings to their government. Russia is communist. I never meant for it to be interrepted as questioning whether or not Russia is democratic society. It's obvious what they are.

I agree with your take on the article.
 
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#37,805
#37,805
Rasputin_Vol said:
I think you have slightly over simplified my position. My position is that desperate times call for desperate measures... and sometimes calls for unlikely allies. Right now, since I live in The West, these are the people that directly impact me. I am fully aware that the countries that oppose the West are flawed in many instances. For example, China is the biggest threat the US has, IMO, not Russia. Yet, if it comes down Taiwan, I would hope that we mind our own damn business and allow for the nations around China to use diplomacy or take military action if they see fit. Meanwhile, The US has far bigger concerns than a Ukraine or Taiwan or any of these other hot spots. America is on fire right now and we have idiotic, corrupt tyrants over here. That is my immediate concern.
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Your characterization of Biden as a tyrant fails. Biden is a weak, ineffectual leader at best. He's a joke, a punchline, and has been since his time as vice president.

I think you miss on American issues. An open society is much better than a repressive one. Sure we have big concerns but the slow methodical creep of Russian aggression is a problem that can be dealt with now or later. Later means direct conflict. Or we do nothing and concede traditional western values dead and have them for repression and the death of individualism.
 
#37,806
#37,806
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#37,807
#37,807
KB5252 said:
Your characterization of Biden as a tyrant fails. Biden is a weak, ineffectual leader at best. He's a joke, a punchline, and has been since his time as vice president.

I think you miss on American issues. An open society is much better than a repressive one. Sure we have big concerns but the slow methodical creep of Russian aggression is a problem that can be dealt with now or later. Later means direct conflict. Or we do nothing and concede traditional western values dead and have them for repression and the death of individualism.
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Direct conflict between who? Let the UK and Poland take care of Russia.
 
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#37,809
#37,809
Rasputin_Vol said:
Direct conflict between who? Let the UK and Poland take care of Russia.
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The US is in a tough spot. I think we have to help stop Russia because if not it would help embolden other adversaries. We can't separate ourselves from world events. The key is how much help is the rest of NATO countries and the region giving vs the amount of aid we are giving?

The thing about this board is we all have opinions. Much of what we say is probably wrong but with that said Trump almost appears to be a genius.

Trump was tough on NATO to give more toward defense.

Trump advised Germany to not be so reliant on Russian energy.

Trump sanctioned the Nord Stream II pipeline project.

Meanwhile, the Biden Administration reversed all of those positions.

Look where we are now.
 
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#37,810
#37,810
BreatheUT said:
I think you misunderstood my first sentence. I was saying Ukraine supposed to have some democratic style leanings to their government. Russia is communist. I never meant for it to be interrepted as questioning whether or not Russia is democratic society. It's obvious what they are.

I agree with your take on the article.
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Eh I figured that is what you meant. It’s an obvious take on Russia and their claims on liberty and freedoms. I just took the chance to mock their worthless arses is all.

Back on topic, Ukraine is in a really tough position. They are in a direct military conflict with one of the premier social media disinformation troll states. Of course Pootin will bring that to bear. And Ukraine will have a tough time balancing it as we see evidence here of the resident propagandists screeching at the silencing of their troll brothers. It’s a tough situation and a good point for you to bring to the forefront for discussion
 
#37,811
#37,811
BreatheUT said:
The US is in a tough spot. I think we have to help stop Russia because if not it would help embolden other adversaries. We can't separate ourselves from world events. The key is how much help is the rest of NATO countries and the region giving vs the amount of aid we are giving?

The thing about this board is we all have opinions. Much of what we say is probably wrong but with that said Trump almost appears to be a genius.

Trump was tough on NATO to give more toward defense.

Trump advised Germany to not be so reliant on Russian energy.

Trump sanctioned the Nord Stream II pipeline project.

Meanwhile, the Biden Administration reversed all of those positions.

Look where we are now.
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What other reasonable alternative does Germany (or Europe as a whole) have? There is nothing that is cheaper and more reliable than pipeline gas. All of these fantasies about the US shipping LNG is laughable because it is inefficient, more expensive and doesn't come close to the volumes that Russia provides.

This isn't about politics. It is simply physics and geography.
 
#37,813
#37,813
Rasputin_Vol said:
What other reasonable alternative does Germany (or Europe as a whole) have? There is nothing that is cheaper and more reliable than pipeline gas. All of these fantasies about the US shipping LNG is laughable because it is inefficient, more expensive and doesn't come close to the volumes that Russia provides.

This isn't about politics. It is simply physics and geography.
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Reasonable point.
 
#37,814
#37,814
BreatheUT said:
Reasonable point.
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What Moe always forgets to mention is that there are alternatives to Russian gas domestic to Europe however due to their idiotic choices in leaving themselves dependent on a geopolitical foe and dictator they will experience pain in the near term while they develop those domestic sources. But develop those domestic sources they are already working to do. It will take a few years to bring online however.

Britain approves plans for new Shell North Sea gas field

Britain approves plans for new Shell North Sea gas field
 
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#37,815
#37,815
DonjoVol said:
So if the information coming from Ukraine and our own news networks is biased then why continue to share it? You guys have already made fools out of yourselves on numerous occasions by not only sharing but getting all giddy over stories that have now been proven to be false. You all starting to look like the 2008 Detroit Lions.
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Pfft.

How dare you call me a Detroit Lion. THAT, sir, is beneath the belt.

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#37,816
#37,816
Rasputin_Vol said:
Direct conflict between who? Let the UK and Poland take care of Russia.
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Direct conflict would being others into it. We would eventually be drawn in.... Willingly or not. Look at what happened in WW2 a much less connected world than what we have today.
 
#37,817
#37,817
BreatheUT said:
Reasonable point.
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And all I'm saying is that how does this belligerence help Europe? If The US can beg for our energy needs from the KSA, the Europeans are supposed to throw pragmatism out the window and virtue signal by turning away from cheap, reliable energy from Russia?

That's just one aspect of this entire drama that could have been resolved diplomatically without the usual sanctions and posturing. Now Europe is suffering.
 
#37,818
#37,818
KB5252 said:
Direct conflict would being others into it. We would eventually be drawn in.... Willingly or not. Look at what happened in WW2 a much less connected world than what we have today.
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No we wouldn't. There would be no reason for the US to get involved in yet another European squabble. Let Europe and Russia resolve their own issues... like it always should have been. Time to kick the training wheels off.
 
#37,819
#37,819
BreatheUT said:
I think you misunderstood my first sentence. I was saying Ukraine supposed to have some democratic style leanings to their government. Russia is communist. I never meant for it to be interrepted as questioning whether or not Russia is democratic society. It's obvious what they are.

I agree with your take on the article.
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Communist? have you fallen out of a tree? I mean a dictatorship possibly, a kleptocratic oligarchy definitely but communist? You have got to be kidding. They are way more capitalist than we are these days.
 
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#37,820
#37,820
KB5252 said:
Direct conflict would being others into it. We would eventually be drawn in.... Willingly or not. Look at what happened in WW2 a much less connected world than what we have today.
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Of course... every situation in Europe falls back to this and requires our involvement. Just like diplomacy is brushed off the table because we don't want to appear to be like Neville Chamberlain.

There never should have been a WWII without the Treaty of Versailles and other events that happened after WWI. The West (mainly The Brits) helped exacerbate a lot of that. And I guarantee you the same is going on in Ukraine. There is no telling what kind of monster we will be dealing with in the future coming out of Ukraine thanks to the West provoking a Russian reaction that has made Ukraine a failed state and all of these Western weapons floating around all over the place. Imagine a Central or Eastern Europe version of the Mujahedeen.
 
#37,821
#37,821
Gandalf said:
Communist? have you fallen out of a tree? I mean a dictatorship possibly, a kleptocratic oligarchy definitely but communist? You have got to be kidding. They are way more capitalist than we are these days.
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These people can't help themselves. They are trapped in 1989 thinking whenever they think of Russia.
 
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#37,822
#37,822
Rasputin_Vol said:
No we wouldn't. There would be no reason for the US to get involved in yet another European squabble. Let Europe and Russia resolve their own issues... like it always should have been. Time to kick the training wheels off.
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Until China and others choose sides and jump in. Conflicts on that scale spill over. I know you know this.
 
#37,824
#37,824
KB5252 said:
Until China and others choose sides and jump in. Conflicts on that scale spill over. I know you know this.
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If we continue along the path we are presently on, then you will get the scenario you are talking about.

Or, we can move towards genuine diplomacy (that means The West has to be willing to make concessions and stop the posturing). If we can sit at a table and talk with the KSA, we should be able to do the Same with Russia, Iran, North Korea or China.
 
#37,825
#37,825
Gandalf said:
Communist? have you fallen out of a tree? I mean a dictatorship possibly, a kleptocratic oligarchy definitely but communist? You have got to be kidding. They are way more capitalist than we are these days.
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There is still an actual communist party in Russia, which Putin is not a member of, that has a very small minority in their parliament.
Belarus has a communist party, which Lukashenko is not a member of, that has a pretty sizeable minority in their parliament.

Which is why it's pretty laughable when people on this forum attach Putin and Lukashenko to communism.
 
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