War in Ukraine

[NorthDallas40]

Ukraine has shown a lot of skill locating and pinpoint targeting all of those ammo dumps.

View attachment 472658

Yeah it’s been glorious to watch. Couldn’t happen to a more deserving group of invading azzhats.

 

[LouderVol]

I'll ask one more time.

If China or Russia were to invite Cuba or Mexico into a military alliance and have troops being trained in Cuba or Mexico or have weapons placed in Cuba or Mexico, how would the US react?

I really do not understand why this is so hard for people to understand. Unless, we just don't have any respect for the security concerns of Russia. Now that may be the real reason.

The only negative example you have is bay of pigs. A conflict spurred by NATO vs USSR tensions built over 50 years. Russia, totally not the USSR, doesnt have the same history of tension to fall back on to explain their aggression.

And btw Russia has a lot more military actions in its neighbors than we do, even if you limit the scope to when we were a nation. See Kazakhstan for the most recent.

 

[volkyries]

I'll ask one more time.

If China or Russia were to invite Cuba or Mexico into a military alliance and have troops being trained in Cuba or Mexico or have weapons placed in Cuba or Mexico, how would the US react?

I really do not understand why this is so hard for people to understand. Unless, we just don't have any respect for the security concerns of Russia. Now that may be the real reason.

While NATO has in the recent past acted in an aggressor role vs its intended defensive charter, I still don't think those situations are the same. Also, NATO's actions were generally in accordance with the world's (UN's) requests/resolutions at the time.

This would be like Texas leaving the US and the US telling Texas they are not allowed to enter a pact with Mexico. This is simply Russia trying to re-control a former territory/ally from a former failed state (USSR).

China or Russia coming across the world to setup shop right next door would be disturbing, but I am not sure the US would invade either if it happened. I am sure we would build up in preparation for an invasion at that point though.

Yes, we messed with Cuba when they were trying to station short-range nuclear missiles there, but again, slightly different situation and in a different time in history (cold war, clearly aggression/hatred between USSR and USA).

 

[Franklin Pierce]

Macron: Turn out the lights, brace for Russian gas cutoff

French President Emmanuel Macron warned his country’s people Thursday to prepare for a total cutoff of Russian natural gas by supporting alternatives, having public lights switched off at night and engaging in a period of nationwide energy “sobriety.”

The Russian invasion of Ukraine and ensuing sanctions have aggravated other factors driving up prices for energy and others goods. With no end in sight for the Ukraine war, Macron said, the French should brace themselves for costs to remain high.

Macron: Turn out the lights, brace for Russian gas cutoff

 

[evillawyer]

Hey @Rasputin_Vol , care to explain how this was a military target?

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

While NATO has in the recent past acted in an aggressor role vs its intended defensive charter, I still don't think those situations are the same. Also, NATO's actions were generally in accordance with the world's (UN's) requests/resolutions at the time.

This would be like Texas leaving the US and the US telling Texas they are not allowed to enter a pact with Mexico. This is simply Russia trying to re-control a former territory/ally from a former failed state (USSR).

China or Russia coming across the world to setup shop right next door would be disturbing, but I am not sure the US would invade either if it happened. I am sure we would build up in preparation for an invasion at that point though.

Yes, we messed with Cuba when they were trying to station short-range nuclear missiles there, but again, slightly different situation and in a different time in history (cold war, clearly aggression/hatred between USSR and USA).

How is it different? NATO was training Ukrainians outside of Lviv for the last 8 years. Nothing you said made a clear difference between NATO in Ukraine and Mexico/Cuba joining a military alliance with China or Russia.

Then you say the US would not intervene, but then acknowledge Bay of Pigs, but say that was different without wanting to explain how.

Its different because you say so? Or its different because we are "the good guys"?

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Hey @Rasputin_Vol , care to explain how this was a military target?

Just like all of these stories, give it about 3 days and the truth will come out.

 

[NorthDallas40]

Just like all of these stories, give it about 3 days and the truth will come out.

Oh I’m sure the Western Death Cult Gay Nazis that were actually holing up there will never be publicly acknowledged and this will just be another mischaracterization of the peace loving invading Russian bastards

 

[KB5252]

So since we don't have the desired amount leverage at the negotiating table, we should just do away with diplomacy? And I don't necessarily buy this idea that we are negotiating from a position of weakness... we do still have nukes and can end mankind in 10 minutes.

We have got to get out of this mindset of wanting to demand conditions be set by our terms and learn to get back to real diplomacy. That means being willing to have some give and take. Some compromises. Searching for mutually beneficial opportunities instead of the rapacious and predatory leveraging that we unfortunately have taken advantage of across the globe since the end of WWII. Countries are aligning against us and forming parallel institutions. We are going to have to learn to play well with others and return to diplomacy, commerce and free trade and leave all of this wargaming and virtue signaling in the trash.


All self-inflicted. That is our fault... or not your and my faults, but the past 40+ years of US leadership that has allowed that to happen.


And the solution to the problem is to bring back all of the manufacturing and labor here to America. It is not to push us into a military confrontation. You are expecting a military solution to an economic problem that we created on our own.

I'm not stating to artificially push toward conflict. Merely pointing out we simply cannot, due to raw goods, manufacture many of the things we need must without China. Shifting manufacturing back is a start but we can't staff fast food restaurants right now. Plants can't find enough workers as it stands.

China, smartly uses their manufacturing superiority to their advantage. We are so far behind it would take decades to ramp up to what we need. In the meantime China is backing Russia and positioning themselves for eventual conflict with the US. That can't be ignored. At some point we will collide.

 

[KB5252]

Just like all of these stories, give it about 3 days and the truth will come out.

In other words wait for the official Russian party line?

 

[volkyries]

How is it different? NATO was training Ukrainians outside of Lviv for the last 8 years. Nothing you said made a clear difference between NATO in Ukraine and Mexico/Cuba joining a military alliance with China or Russia.

Then you say the US would not intervene, but then acknowledge Bay of Pigs, but say that was different without wanting to explain how.

Its different because you say so? Or its different because we are "the good guys"?

Training is different than attacking, right? Was NATO training Ukrainians to invade Russia, I don't think so but I don't know everything like some other posters. They were likely training to defend themselves from Russia and it seems the need for that training has been proven correct.

I did not reference the Bay of Pigs which fits your narrative, not mine. I referenced the Cuban missile crisis which was completely different. It was not one country simply forming and alliance with another and provoking the US to attack them even though we never really did attack the USSR or Cuba over the incident. Nice try though. I do like the Bay of Pigs analogy for hopefully Russia losing in its attempt to take over Ukraine like the US lost in ours to take over Cuba. Neither nation should have interfered in another nations business at those two points in time.

Different because it is different, despite your efforts to pretend they are not.

 

[FLVOL_79]

Training is different than attacking, right? Was NATO training Ukrainians to invade Russia, I don't think so but I don't know everything like some other posters. They were likely training to defend themselves from Russia and it seems the need for that training has been proven correct.

I did not reference the Bay of Pigs which fits your narrative, not mine. I referenced the Cuban missile crisis which was completely different. It was not one country simply forming and alliance with another and provoking the US to attack them even though we never really did attack the USSR or Cuba over the incident. Nice try though. I do like the Bay of Pigs analogy for hopefully Russia losing in its attempt to take over Ukraine like the US lost in ours to take over Cuba. Neither nation should have interfered in another nations business at those two points in time.

Different because it is different, despite your efforts to pretend they are not.

As a relative of an operator who trained Ukrainians..it was to defend themselves from Russia..same reason my bro has been training SOF in lots of old Soviet bloc countries. The invasion of Georgia was a wake up call.

 

[BreatheUT]

And that's "real stones"? Just mediocrity. Keeping it on the road and out of the ditch. And that would have stopped February 24th, in your opinion? Unless you mean mediocre as being doing what countries normally do which is pick up a phone and try to has things out using diplomacy, I think that we would be in the same boat right now.

I'm sure Russia was waiting on the right opportunity. I just think the Afghanistan failure, the constantly ******* with Russia, and the clear incompetence in the US Administration gave them all the reasons needed to move forward with what they wanted to do. To your point about picking up the phone, well this administration has consistently mocked Russia and Putin publically not only over the last 1 1/2 years but in the years before. That's not good for diplomacy or good relations. The only country they won't say a word about is China.

 

[BreatheUT]

I'll ask one more time.

If China or Russia were to invite Cuba or Mexico into a military alliance and have troops being trained in Cuba or Mexico or have weapons placed in Cuba or Mexico, how would the US react?

I really do not understand why this is so hard for people to understand. Unless, we just don't have any respect for the security concerns of Russia. Now that may be the real reason.

Oh I get what your saying. Why do I need to answer it when you know what I'm going to say?

 

[MontyPython]

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

China, smartly uses their manufacturing superiority to their advantage. We are so far behind it would take decades to ramp up to what we need. In the meantime China is backing Russia and positioning themselves for eventual conflict with the US. That can't be ignored. At some point we will collide.

Now explain how they are doing this? Are they threatening to invade Guam? What am I missing here?

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

China, smartly uses their manufacturing superiority to their advantage. We are so far behind it would take decades to ramp up to what we need. In the meantime China is backing Russia and positioning themselves for eventual conflict with the US. That can't be ignored. At some point we will collide.

You say it as though it is fact. It doesn't have to come to conflict. Especially because we unwisely shipped our manufacturing over to them or to protect Taiwan. That is just crazy talk. Let Japan, South Korea, Vietnam, India, and Australia deal with it. They should be responsible for their own security needs just like Western Europe should be involved in their own security needs.

Leave us out of that while we at least make an effort to secure our needs and worry about our own borders.

Why is this such a hard concept for you guys to wrap your mind around?

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

In other words wait for the official Russian party line?

Or simply wait for the Ukrainians to come out or even a Western media outlet to debunk it... similar to the Russian rape stories, or Ghost of Kyiv, or Snake Island. They'll eventually tell the truth.

 

[evillawyer]

Or simply wait for the Ukrainians to come out or even a Western media outlet to debunk it... similar to the Russian rape stories, or Ghost of Kyiv, or Snake Island. They'll eventually tell the truth.

Must be truly amazing to walk through life untethered to reality

 

[LouderVol]

You say it as though it is fact. It doesn't have to come to conflict. Especially because we unwisely shipped our manufacturing over to them or to protect Taiwan. That is just crazy talk. Let Japan, South Korea, Vietnam, India, and Australia deal with it. They should be responsible for their own security needs just like Western Europe should be involved in their own security needs.

Leave us out of that while we at least make an effort to secure our needs and worry about our own borders.

Why is this such a hard concept for you guys to wrap your mind around?

History says it is a given the two super powers will collide. Unless one of us collapses first under internal pressure. Even money on both nations for that.

 

[Orangeburst]

History says it is a given the two super powers will collide. Unless one of us collapses first under internal pressure. Even money on both nations for that.

Russia is not a superpower...as evidenced. Focus people

 

[USF grad in TN]

I'm sure Russia was waiting on the right opportunity. I just think the Afghanistan failure, the constantly ******* with Russia, and the clear incompetence in the US Administration gave them all the reasons needed to move forward with what they wanted to do. To your point about picking up the phone, well this administration has consistently mocked Russia and Putin publically not only over the last 1 1/2 years but in the years before. That's not good for diplomacy or good relations. The only country they won't say a word about is China.

My hunch is that they were also waiting for the green movement in Europe to shut down enough nuclear and coal fired power plants, and become more vulnerable to losing Russian energy.

 

[BreatheUT]

History says it is a given the two super powers will collide. Unless one of us collapses first under internal pressure. Even money on both nations for that.

Probably why China is stealing our secrets, not giving a schiznik when they let covid get out to the rest of the world to ruin their economies too, brought us Tik Tok that they have limited in their own society and send fentanyl through the porous border of Mexico. Too many new world order neo-liberals in this country that hard working folks got to prop up.

 

[USF grad in TN]

Now explain how they are doing this? Are they threatening to invade Guam? What am I missing here?

I don't think they are eager for a fight. They're doing too well taking our technology without a fight.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Training is different than attacking, right? Was NATO training Ukrainians to invade Russia, I don't think so but I don't know everything like some other posters. They were likely training to defend themselves from Russia and it seems the need for that training has been proven correct.

Oh stop it. Who the hell else are they training for? Stop gaslighting and trying tip toe on some alleged distinction in your mind. The fact that NATO has a training facility in Ukraine is the issue. Again, if a military alliance involving China or Russia was doing the same in Cuba or Mexico, hw would the United States react? That is as clear cut of an apples to apples comparison as you can get.

And your comment is moot anyways because they are fighting the Russians right now and have been fighting the militia of the republics for 8 years.

I did not reference the Bay of Pigs which fits your narrative, not mine. I referenced the Cuban missile crisis which was completely different.

My mistake on that, but even still, the Bay of Pigs proves my point. The US would not stand for it. Nor would the US stand for a foreign power like China or Russia to place weapons in Cuba or Mexico, which also proves my point.

It was not one country simply forming and alliance with another and provoking the US to attack them even though we never really did attack the USSR or Cuba over the incident. Nice try though. I do like the Bay of Pigs analogy for hopefully Russia losing in its attempt to take over Ukraine like the US lost in ours to take over Cuba. Neither nation should have interfered in another nations business at those two points in time.

Here you go with the gaslighting and wordplay... "really" attack. So again, what was the Bay of Pigs? A special military operation? Didn't we try for at least two decades to have Castro assassinated several times?

Different because it is different, despite your efforts to pretend they are not.

Different because you know good and damn well your position doesn't make any sense.

It was not one country simply forming and alliance with another and provoking the US to attack them even though we never really did attack the USSR or Cuba over the incident.

So wait, you mean a country can be provoked into taking action? Explain what you mean here?

I do like the Bay of Pigs analogy for hopefully Russia losing in its attempt to take over Ukraine like the US lost in ours to take over Cuba. Neither nation should have interfered in another nations business at those two points in time.

Well first off, Kennedy had that fall into his lap when he came into office and he was rightfully against the idea. So the scheme did not have the full backing of the White House, which is why it was a disaster. This special military operation is a different matter all together for Russia because unlike the Bay of Pigs for the US in 1961, it was NOT an existential threat to the country. To Russia, however, everyone in the govt is onboard and realize that NATO involvement in Ukraine DOES represent an existential threat the Russia.

Now with regards to the Cuban Missile Crisis, had the US not placed missiles in Turkey, Russia would not have felt the need to reciprocate in Cuba. But the interesting thing about the Cuban Missile Crisis is that something happened then that would not likely happen right now. That is diplomacy. We don't have that with these clowns right now. We have a group of mean high school girls that pout and virtue signal and have fits. "I'm not going to be your friend" type nonsense.