War in Ukraine

#37,826
#37,826
Rasputin_Vol said:
If we continue along the path we are presently on, then you will get the scenario you are talking about.

Or, we can move towards genuine diplomacy (that means The West has to be willing to make concessions and stop the posturing). If we can sit at a table and talk with the KSA, we should be able to do the Same with Russia, Iran, North Korea or China.
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They won't sit at the table with them because our military industrial complex needs enemies in order for them to benefit financially.

Now I'm still curious as to what John Kerry was doing over in Iran throughout the years.
 
#37,828
#37,828
The problem with the US being involved in this war is that money involved and arms being sent to Ukraine appear to be misused. Arms sent are reportedly being sold on the European black market. Also, Biden stated that money and arms would continue to be sent to Ukraine whether or not it bankrupts this country.
 
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#37,829
#37,829
tnmarktx said:
The problem with the US being involved in this war is that money involved and arms being sent to Ukraine appear to be misused. Arms sent are reportedly being sold on the European black market. Also, Biden stated that money and arms would continue to be sent to Ukraine whether or not it bankrupts this country.
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Don’t disagree on the oversight of money however the black market resell claim is this far a red herring and appears to be more Russian troll farm product.

And the US is sending entirely too much money. If we send anything I think we need to focus on weapons and Intel sharing. Let Europe rebuild Ukraine in their image if they like.
 
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#37,830
#37,830
tnmarktx said:
The problem with the US being involved in this war is that money involved and arms being sent to Ukraine appear to be misused. Arms sent are reportedly being sold on the European black market. Also, Biden stated that money and arms would continue to be sent to Ukraine whether or not it bankrupts this country.
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I said it before. The military industrial complex could care less who ends up with these weapons after they are sold.

I actually heard the same thing regarding weapons being on sold on the black market. But cannot confirm so it's not something I'm willing to run with. However it wouldn't surprise me with the mass level of corruption that occurs in Ukraine.
 
#37,831
#37,831
I find this thread comical. I see posters who have said the media has lied and it’s the virus. Those same posters have trashed the media for their misrepresentation. Yet now, because it’s poor little Ukraine against Russia, all media and any pro Ukraine website or Twitter account is to be believed without question. Any info that says Ukraine is doing great and Russia is struggling is somehow completely accurate.

Some of you will believe anything you see or hear as long as it goes along with what you want to believe.

F624DAF4-CB90-4C20-B15B-F1C02FADD152.jpeg
 
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#37,832
#37,832
BigOrangeTrain said:
I find this thread comical. I see posters who have said the media has lied and it’s the virus. Those same posters have trashed the media for their misrepresentation. Yet now, because it’s poor little Ukraine against Russia, all media and any pro Ukraine website or Twitter account is to be believed without question. Any info that says Ukraine is doing great and Russia is struggling is somehow completely accurate.

Some of you will believe anything you see or hear as long as it goes along with what you want to believe.
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This is one of the most perplexing thing I see. What this reveals is that there is a genuine dislike of Russians... or likely just Slavs judging by the way they viscerally react to Serbs.
 
#37,833
#37,833
BigOrangeTrain said:
I find this thread comical. I see posters who have said the media has lied and it’s the virus. Those same posters have trashed the media for their misrepresentation. Yet now, because it’s poor little Ukraine against Russia, all media and any pro Ukraine website or Twitter account is to be believed without question. Any info that says Ukraine is doing great and Russia is struggling is somehow completely accurate.

Some of you will believe anything you see or hear as long as it goes along with what you want to believe.

View attachment 472638
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That is why I broached the question are all the Chester Cheetos twitter updates reality?
 
#37,834
#37,834
BreatheUT said:
That is why I broached the question are all the Chester Cheetos twitter updates reality?
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They most definitely are not, for both sides. If I see something first in a posted tweet I try to verify via other media I believe to be credible. And that goes for all tweets on all topics honesty. Twitter isn’t a journalistic forum it’s sandlot monkey poo throwing.

But on a few occasions I’ll also post an obvious wrong tweet in this thread to watch the Russian trolls screech. Good times 😎
 
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#37,836
#37,836
Rasputin_Vol said:
What about our budget shortfalls here in America and the rest of The West? I swear, you Ukrainiacs still don't see this has nothing to do with the Ukrainian people. This is a giant money pit that the MIC, politicians and other connected individuals are going to just drag out for as long as they can.
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And that still doesnt make what Russia is doing ok. Ukraine wouldnt have a leg to stand on if Russia had just minded it's own business.

Our government's response to the war in Ukraine is a completely separate issue than the war in Ukraine. If our government had given nothing at all to Ukraine they would still be dying over there. There is no evidence to suggest the Ukrainians would give up the fight, it would just be less effective.
 
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#37,837
#37,837
LouderVol said:
Lol wut. We already went over one of the minorities, near the Urals I believe, having to get permission from Russia to speak their native tongue.
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Which Uralic language are you talking about? Be more specific. There are 35 official languages in Russia. It's a very diverse country.

Are okay with Ukraine trying to ban not only the Russian language but Russian literature as well?
 
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#37,838
#37,838
LouderVol said:
And that still doesnt make what Russia is doing ok. Ukraine wouldnt have a leg to stand on if Russia had just minded it's own business.

Our government's response to the war in Ukraine is a completely separate issue than the war in Ukraine. If our government had given nothing at all to Ukraine they would still be dying over there. There is no evidence to suggest the Ukrainians would give up the fight, it would just be less effective.
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Actually if our government had some real stones then I think Russia thinks twice about invading. There is always a deeper "why" when seeking to answer the Five Whys.
 
#37,839
#37,839
BreatheUT said:
Actually if our government had some real stones then I think Russia thinks twice about invading. There is always a deeper "why" when seeking to answer the Five Whys.
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What would you consider "real stones" with regards to a nuclear peer? A strongly worded reprimand? More sanctions? Boots on the ground? First strike nuclear option?
 
#37,840
#37,840
BreatheUT said:
Actually if our government had some real stones then I think Russia thinks twice about invading. There is always a deeper "why" when seeking to answer the Five Whys.
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Or how about this... I'm spit balling here so stay with me. But what if hypothetically, the Russians were mainly concerned about the people in Donbas being shelled for 8 years after a diplomatic solution was ignored by one side and Russia security concerns about NATO moving closer to its border? If we were in Russia's shoes, we would have issues and concerns if China or Russia may have been involved in Cuba or Mexico and forming a military alliance with those countries near us.

I know that is far out lunacy talk, but just wondering if maybe you could entertain that possibility.
 
#37,843
#37,843
Rasputin_Vol said:
Or how about this... I'm spit balling here so stay with me. But what if hypothetically, the Russians were mainly concerned about the people in Donbas being shelled for 8 years after a diplomatic solution was ignored by one side and Russia security concerns about NATO moving closer to its border? If we were in Russia's shoes, we would have issues and concerns if China or Russia may have been involved in Cuba or Mexico and forming a military alliance with those countries near us.

I know that is far out lunacy talk, but just wondering if maybe you could entertain that possibility.
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I'm not sure there were real threats of NATO moving closer to its borders prior to this invasion. If I recall there has been some agreement issues with NATO, but I honestly hadn't been looking at this very much over the last couple of months to even mention what those concerns were.
 
#37,844
#37,844
Rasputin_Vol said:
This is one of the most perplexing thing I see. What this reveals is that there is a genuine dislike of Russians... or likely just Slavs judging by the way they viscerally react to Serbs.
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But not to the Ukrainian Slavs? Or whichever other Slavic people the Serbs were killing at the time. Or the Poles, slovaks, czech.
 
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#37,845
#37,845
Rasputin_Vol said:
If we continue along the path we are presently on, then you will get the scenario you are talking about.

Or, we can move towards genuine diplomacy (that means The West has to be willing to make concessions and stop the posturing). If we can sit at a table and talk with the KSA, we should be able to do the Same with Russia, Iran, North Korea or China.
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We have weakened our position globally in regards to China to the point that we cannot afford diplomacy in the conventional sense because we will always negotiate from a position of weakness. They have the strength, mainly because we are still dependant for manufacturing, cheap labor and goods that are environmentally "dirty" to mine or produce.

They hold the true strength and our paths will cross inevitably at some point in the not too distant future.
 
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#37,846
#37,846
BreatheUT said:
An administration they don't view as a social experimental joke.
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And that's "real stones"? Just mediocrity. Keeping it on the road and out of the ditch. And that would have stopped February 24th, in your opinion? Unless you mean mediocre as being doing what countries normally do which is pick up a phone and try to has things out using diplomacy, I think that we would be in the same boat right now.
 
#37,847
#37,847
KB5252 said:
We have weakened our position globally in regards to China you the point that we cannot afford diplomacy in the conventional sense because we will always negotiate from a position of weakness.
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So since we don't have the desired amount leverage at the negotiating table, we should just do away with diplomacy? And I don't necessarily buy this idea that we are negotiating from a position of weakness... we do still have nukes and can end mankind in 10 minutes.

We have got to get out of this mindset of wanting to demand conditions be set by our terms and learn to get back to real diplomacy. That means being willing to have some give and take. Some compromises. Searching for mutually beneficial opportunities instead of the rapacious and predatory leveraging that we unfortunately have taken advantage of across the globe since the end of WWII. Countries are aligning against us and forming parallel institutions. We are going to have to learn to play well with others and return to diplomacy, commerce and free trade and leave all of this wargaming and virtue signaling in the trash.

KB5252 said:
They have the strength, mainly because we are still dependent for manufacturing, cheap labor and goods that are environmentally "dirty" to mine or produce.
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All self-inflicted. That is our fault... or not your and my faults, but the past 40+ years of US leadership that has allowed that to happen.

KB5252 said:
They hold the true strength and our paths will cross inevitably at some point in the not too distant future.
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And the solution to the problem is to bring back all of the manufacturing and labor here to America. It is not to push us into a military confrontation. You are expecting a military solution to an economic problem that we created on our own.
 
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#37,848
#37,848
BreatheUT said:
I'm not sure there were real threats of NATO moving closer to its borders prior to this invasion. If I recall there has been some agreement issues with NATO, but I honestly hadn't been looking at this very much over the last couple of months to even mention what those concerns were.
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I'll ask one more time.

If China or Russia were to invite Cuba or Mexico into a military alliance and have troops being trained in Cuba or Mexico or have weapons placed in Cuba or Mexico, how would the US react?

I really do not understand why this is so hard for people to understand. Unless, we just don't have any respect for the security concerns of Russia. Now that may be the real reason.
 
#37,849
#37,849
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#37,850
#37,850
BreatheUT said:
I'm not sure there were real threats of NATO moving closer to its borders prior to this invasion. If I recall there has been some agreement issues with NATO, but I honestly hadn't been looking at this very much over the last couple of months to even mention what those concerns were.
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Also, the coup in 2014, which was orchestrated by the Obama State Department and the 8 years of attacks on Donbas obviously played a factor.

Imagine if China or Russia had staged a coup in Mexico or Cuba. How would the US react?
 
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