War in Ukraine

I'm sure Russia was waiting on the right opportunity. I just think the Afghanistan failure, the constantly ******* with Russia, and the clear incompetence in the US Administration gave them all the reasons needed to move forward with what they wanted to do. To your point about picking up the phone, well this administration has consistently mocked Russia and Putin publically not only over the last 1 1/2 years but in the years before. That's not good for diplomacy or good relations. The only country they won't say a word about is China.
Which only makes the point I've been trying to drive home. Because China has so much influence in this country and because we sold our souls and just gave up our manufacturing advantage to them, they represent a far bigger threat to us than Russia. Russia was simply asking NATO to give them a buffer over the last 30 years between themselves and NATO. We have blown an opportunity to be strong allies with Russia after the fall of the USSR. They would have been (and likely still could be) a natural counterbalance to China. But instead of the Russia moving closer to the US, they are moving closer with China.
 
Now explain how they are doing this? Are they threatening to invade Guam? What am I missing here?
Amassing a great army, stealing military tech and producing arms to rival ours when possible. Propping up a very repressive dictator who claims to want to destroy America. Naval military expansion and claiming of islands and territory in and near American ally territory. The last of these examples is meant to be very provacative.
 
You say it as though it is fact. It doesn't have to come to conflict. Especially because we unwisely shipped our manufacturing over to them or to protect Taiwan. That is just crazy talk. Let Japan, South Korea, Vietnam, India, and Australia deal with it. They should be responsible for their own security needs just like Western Europe should be involved in their own security needs.

Leave us out of that while we at least make an effort to secure our needs and worry about our own borders.

Why is this such a hard concept for you guys to wrap your mind around?
But we already are colliding, there is a very subtle cold war that has already started. It began as strictly trade in nature. Now it has become political. The only way to stop it is for America or China to capitulate. We are already on uneven, some would say unfair trade terms. You can see it coming, I can see it coming.
 
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You say it as though it is fact. It doesn't have to come to conflict. Especially because we unwisely shipped our manufacturing over to them or to protect Taiwan. That is just crazy talk. Let Japan, South Korea, Vietnam, India, and Australia deal with it. They should be responsible for their own security needs just like Western Europe should be involved in their own security needs.

Leave us out of that while we at least make an effort to secure our needs and worry about our own borders.

Why is this such a hard concept for you guys to wrap your mind around?
You say this as if regional politics and global politics aren't completely and impossibly intertwined. What happens in one small region of the world sends ripples that grow into waves that have effect on every corner of the globe.

Destabilization in one area is all areas. There is no longer a distinction. That is the world we live in and there is no way to put the toothpaste back into the tube.
 
Amassing a great army, stealing military tech and producing arms to rival ours when possible.
That is something a wise country would do. WTF? Countries are supposed to be able to defend themselves or be able to wage war when necessary.

Propping up a very repressive dictator who claims to want to destroy America.
Xi is certainly a hardcore CCP statist, no doubt, but I am unaware of him making any threats to America unless it was said in reference to him drawing a red line. For the most part, China would rather make money and expand into markets, not make war.

Naval military expansion and claiming of islands and territory in and near American ally territory.
Well first off, I've gone over this. They have every right to protect their naval shipping routes as much as anyone else, especially when the Straits of Malacca are a potential bottleneck in the region and the US was somehow promoted as the guardian of the world oceans. Second, here we go again talking about "allies". Let the countries in that region put on their big boy pants and let them work it out. Not for the US to get entangled in another damn regional conflict when there are countries in the region that are fully capable collectively of doing the job.

The last of these examples is meant to be very provacative.
Oh, so you are aware of the idea of being provocative. Now that is interesting. So to be clear. What exactly are you saying?
 
But we already are colliding, there is a very subtle cold war that has already started. It began as strictly trade in nature. Now it has become political. The only way to stop it is for America or China to capitulate. We are already on uneven, some would say unfair trade terms. You can see it coming, I can see it coming.
Or we get rid of the Manchurian Candidates that are here running things. That is the main reason why China is a threat. They have moles here on the inside that are destroying us far more effectively than if they fired a single shot in war.

And uneven trading terms is not a justification for conflict, especially when we made conditions unfavorable for ourselves.
 
You say this as if regional politics and global politics aren't completely and impossibly intertwined. What happens in one small region of the world sends ripples that grow into waves that have effect on every corner of the globe.
Sir, I lived through 2+ years of COVID, so no need to lecture me on the fragility of supply chains, how a virus can cause disruptions or any of this other stuff. I fully understand that. But tell me why in the world Main Street America would give a damn what China does in the South China Sea? I'll go a step further... even with Taiwan and its chip making and manufacturing, why would we care if China decides to annex/capture Taiwan? Again, that is a self-inflicted problem. We never should have outsourced our chip manufacturing. The time, energy and expense that the military is using to counter China over Taiwan, that effort could be redirected towards this country building up its own domestic chip production. Instead of thinking that a military action is needed to resolve an economic problem, why not just do what is practical? Does everything have to revolve around war?

Destabilization in one area is all areas. There is no longer a distinction. That is the world we live in and there is no way to put the toothpaste back into the tube.
How old are you? There was a stat I heard about last year that at one time in America, like maybe in the 1950s or 1960s, 70-80% of all American household electronics and appliances were made by GE and here in America. If we can mobilize a Manhattan Project to build a bomb, or NASA to be those damn Ruskies in the Space Race, then there is no reason why we cannot mobilize and rebuild our economy how it was 2 generations ago.
 
Is this not communism? Or is it fascism? Honestly I'm not sure which.

Per ISW:

The Kremlin likely ordered Russian “federal subjects” (regions) to form volunteer battalions to participate in the Russian invasion of Ukraine, instead of declaring partial or full mobilization in Russia. Russian war correspondent and milblogger Maksim Fomin stated that Russia has begun a “volunteer mobilization,” where every region must generate at least one volunteer battalion. The term “volunteer mobilization” likely implies that the Kremlin ordered the 85 “federal subjects” (regions, including occupied Sevastopol and Crimea) to recruit and financially incentivize volunteers to form new battalions, rather than referring to literal mobilization relying on conscription or the compulsory activation of all reservists in Russia.
 
More weapons and cash...

EU To Boost Ukraine Arms Financing To €2.5BN As Concerns Grow Over Domestic Stockpiles | ZeroHedge

They are expected to set aside 500 million euros ($500 million) more in military aid to Kiev, Bloomberg reports, at a moment Russian forces continue unleashing constant artillery strikes on Ukrainian positions in the Donbas.

"That would bring the total arms financing to 2.5 billion euros," Bloomberg writes. "The bloc in recent months has agreed to several rounds of arms financing for Ukraine under the so-called European Peace Facility, which reimburses governments for military deliveries to Ukraine."

Additionally, as we detailed earlier some Western officials are beginning to wake up to reality foreign-supplied weapons are likely leaving the battlefield, sold on the black market and ending up in the hands of criminal groups or possibly even terrorists.

 
I honestly never fully understood the severity of the issue until late February/March. Those people were living in hell for 8 years under that regime.
Ah yes. When that azzhat Pootin was priming all his loyal subjects like yourself to go sell the special military operation. I actually believe you on the timeframe. But only the time frame.
 
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How is it different? NATO was training Ukrainians outside of Lviv for the last 8 years. Nothing you said made a clear difference between NATO in Ukraine and Mexico/Cuba joining a military alliance with China or Russia.

Then you say the US would not intervene, but then acknowledge Bay of Pigs, but say that was different without wanting to explain how.

Its different because you say so? Or its different because we are "the good guys"?
Russia was training Cuban troops in cuba long before either CMC or BoP. They were also arming them.

Russia/USSR were in an active military alliance, the US and Ukraine still arent despite Putin's fear mongering.

The Cuban Missile Crisis was centered around nukes. Ukraingate is centered some arms you dont believe effect the war at all.

The Cubans that participated in the Bay of Pigs were cuban nationals that fled to the US. Russia has Ukrainian nationals that formed their break away region separate from Russia.

And Castro was actively calling for the nuking of the US during the crisis.

Hardly the same as what is going on with Ukraine.
 
Sir, I lived through 2+ years of COVID, so no need to lecture me on the fragility of supply chains, how a virus can cause disruptions or any of this other stuff. I fully understand that. But tell me why in the world Main Street America would give a damn what China does in the South China Sea? I'll go a step further... even with Taiwan and its chip making and manufacturing, why would we care if China decides to annex/capture Taiwan? Again, that is a self-inflicted problem. We never should have outsourced our chip manufacturing. The time, energy and expense that the military is using to counter China over Taiwan, that effort could be redirected towards this country building up its own domestic chip production. Instead of thinking that a military action is needed to resolve an economic problem, why not just do what is practical? Does everything have to revolve around war?


How old are you? There was a stat I heard about last year that at one time in America, like maybe in the 1950s or 1960s, 70-80% of all American household electronics and appliances were made by GE and here in America. If we can mobilize a Manhattan Project to build a bomb, or NASA to be those damn Ruskies in the Space Race, then there is no reason why we cannot mobilize and rebuild our economy how it was 2 generations ago.
The statement your bolded was in reference to everything being intertwined globally. We tried the isolationist route in the lead up to WW2. We were drawn in anyway. Because of who we are we will always be considered a threat, potential out otherwise and will be struck. That is the entire point. That was the mid 1940's when the world was a much larger place. It's tiny in comparison now. Isolationism gets you nowhere except isolated.


And the dictator being propped up is the Kim family.
 
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How about Reuters then?

Ukraine denounces deadly strike as talks show progress on grain exports

Ukraine denounces deadly strike as talks show progress on grain exports

Ukraine's state emergency service said three children, including a 4-year-old girl named Lisa, were among the fatalities and 71 people were hospitalized and 29 others missing.

Why should we believe Reuters? They aren’t unbiased. There is no unbiased reporting about any of this. Other than our idiotic government giving a corrupt country money and resources, I don’t really believe anything about this situation.

Russia has tons of propaganda coming out but so does Ukraine. Like I said earlier, it just strikes me as funny that now the media and social media is telling us the truth as long as it’s pro Ukraine. You and many others believe whatever you read or hear as long as it’s anti Russia and pro Ukraine.

I think as usual, we are all being lied to. Even some of the random things Injave posted in here, I question those now.
 
Why should we believe Reuters? They aren’t unbiased. There is no unbiased reporting about any of this. Other than our idiotic government giving a corrupt country money and resources, I don’t really believe anything about this situation.

Russia has tons of propaganda coming out but so does Ukraine. Like I said earlier, it just strikes me as funny that now the media and social media is telling us the truth as long as it’s pro Ukraine. You and many others believe whatever you read or hear as long as it’s anti Russia and pro Ukraine.

I think as usual, we are all being lied to. Even some of the random things Injave posted in here, I question those now.
LMAO so now Reuters can’t meet the exacting standards of RT, TASS, Lancaster, or Lira either? 🤡

9292E6B5-E272-4B38-BFBD-58632EB2CE19.jpeg
 
LMAO so now Reuters can’t meet the exacting standards of RT, TASS, Lancaster, or Lira either? 🤡

View attachment 472774

You can trust whom ever you wish. But I have a feeling if there was websites and other social media posts that were pro Russia, you would be just saying oh it’s nothing but propaganda. Right?

Get real dude. We are being played yet again by the media.
 
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