War in Ukraine

#376
#376
NorthDallas40 said:
LMAO but it isn’t dissolved. Ok so we should only honor our word when it fits your argument? Sounds legit.
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Is there anything written down about the consequences of a member nation not paying their 2% or whatever their supposed to pay in? Even if you were in The Lollipop Guild, if you don't pay your dues, you get kicked out or threatened with removal. NATO would be just The US and maybe 2-3 other countries if that were the case. May as well dissolve it.
 
#377
#377
05_never_again said:
I doubt the sanctions are an empty threat, because they probably will pass them if Russia invaded (unlike Obama's Syria red line). It just won't change Russia's behavior.

Russia is not going to invade Ukraine anyway.
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There isn’t any sanctions that can be passed to hurt Putin & co. We sanction Putin and he cuts off the NG to Western Europe in winter who do you think blinks first?
 
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#378
#378
Rasputin_Vol said:
That depends on what move Ukraine and The West decide to make. Look out for a provocation or false flag to kick things off. Although having said that, Russia/Putin have shown an extreme amount of patience since 2014/2015 by not taking the bait on some of these provocations.
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By "invade Ukraine" I mean move on Kiev/the western part of the country. There is no way in hell that would happen, false flag or not.

Move into Eastern Ukraine, which he already effectively controls? Perhaps.
 
#379
#379
05_never_again said:
Not a waste - it's to apply pressure, see how Europe reacts, reassert his control over Crimea/Eastern Ukraine.

Rightly or wrongly, I'd say he's doing this because he perceives the status quo on the ground might be changing in Eastern Ukraine, and he's rather not have the Ukrainians get confident and think they could take that part of the country back.
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Right now the sovereign border still says Ukraine. If Europe rolls over again when he rolls those tanks in to “insure stability” then the bastards deserve what they get and we need to stay out of it
 
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#380
#380
Rasputin_Vol said:
Is there anything written down about the consequences of a member nation not paying their 2% or whatever their supposed to pay in? Even if you were in The Lollipop Guild, if you don't pay your dues, you get kicked out or threatened with removal. NATO would be just The US and maybe 2-3 other countries if that were the case. May as well dissolve it.
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LMFAO so yes we need to stand by our word except when it’s inconvenient for your argument 🤡
 
#381
#381
05_never_again said:
By "invade Ukraine" I mean move on Kiev/the western part of the country. There is no way in hell that would happen, false flag or not.

Move into Eastern Ukraine, which he already effectively controls? Perhaps.
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I'm strictly referring to Eastern Ukraine. Advancing into Kiev and Western Ukraine is an entirely different ballgame right now.
 
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#382
#382
lawgator1 said:
I'm just not sure there is an appetite for any military response by the citizenry here. So if that's not an option not much else left.
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I agree that there is no appetite for a US military response, I hope we STFO of it. He could make it clear that he would support a European response to any aggression on Russia’s part.
 
#384
#384
Rasputin_Vol said:
Is there anything written down about the consequences of a member nation not paying their 2% or whatever their supposed to pay in? Even if you were in The Lollipop Guild, if you don't pay your dues, you get kicked out or threatened with removal. NATO would be just The US and maybe 2-3 other countries if that were the case. May as well dissolve it.
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The US doesn't care that most don't pay their 2%. It's about having the US call the shots and having them do what we say, even if we pay for it all.
 
#386
#386
Rasputin_Vol said:
So again I ask like I did yesterday... what good is a one way military alliance?
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It isn't one-way in terms of manpower. It is one-way in terms of having the US control it and pay for it. It was set up that way intentionally, by the United States.

If they pay, then they might also start to think they have a say in how the alliance is run, and the power that be in the US don't like that.
 
#387
#387
05_never_again said:
It isn't one-way in terms of manpower. It is one-way in terms of having the US control it and pay for it. It was set up that way intentionally, by the United States.

If they pay, then they might also start to think they have a say in how the alliance is run, and the power that be in the US don't like that.
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And this is an OK setup with you? Flushing resources into a one way alliance in Europe for what reason?
 
#388
#388
Rasputin_Vol said:
And this is an OK setup with you? Flushing resources into a one way alliance in Europe for what reason?
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I never said it was an OK setup. You were wondering why there aren't consequences for not spending at least 2% of your GDP on military spending, and I was explaining why. It's because the US doesn't care, and just wants the other countries in the alliance to be on our side and do what we tell them to.

Geez, you sure do have a hair trigger to go to "this person wants to argue with me!" mode.
 
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#390
#390
05_never_again said:
I never said it was an OK setup. You were wondering where there aren't consequences for not spending at least 2% of your GDP on military spending, and I was explaining why. It's because the US doesn't care, and just wants the other countries in the alliance to be on our side and do what we tell them to.
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Bingo. NATO was our boys club that we told what to do and we didn’t care if they paid or not since we largely fund it. I’m totally fine if NATO is dissolved but it isn’t dissolved today so if a NATO member rightfully invokes Article 5 we are obligated to respond. Ukraine clearly does not have that right and NATO members that go to defend Ukraine can’t invoke Article 5 when Russia kicks their ass
 
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#392
#392
NorthDallas40 said:
Bingo. NATO was our boys club that we told what to do and we didn’t care if they paid or not since we largely fund it. I’m totally fine if NATO is dissolved but it isn’t dissolved today so if a NATO member rightfully invokes Article 5 we are obligated to respond. Ukraine clearly does not have that right and NATO members that go to defend Ukraine can’t invoke Article 5 when Russia kicks their ass
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None of the NATO countries are coming to Ukraines defense anyway. If Putin took all of Ukraine all he would get out of Western Europe is a bunch of bluster.
 
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#393
#393
05_never_again said:
I never said it was an OK setup. You were wondering why there aren't consequences for not spending at least 2% of your GDP on military spending, and I was explaining why. It's because the US doesn't care, and just wants the other countries in the alliance to be on our side and do what we tell them to.

Geez, you sure do have a hair trigger to go to "this person wants to argue with me!" mode.
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I just think the entire arrangement gets us too entangled into petty, long standing beefs in Europe that we have no business engaging in. That is source of my frustration about all of this. I cam spend all day going back and forth with you for any number of reasons on why NATO should be disbanded and/or the US needs to just leave. This does nothing for average Americans nor does it do anything to make us more safe and secure.
 
#394
#394
Rasputin_Vol said:
I just think the entire arrangement gets us too entangled into petty, long standing beefs in Europe that we have no business engaging in. That is source of my frustration about all of this. I cam spend all day going back and forth with you for any number of reasons on why NATO should be disbanded and/or the US needs to just leave. This does nothing for average Americans nor does it do anything to make us more safe and secure.
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But you know the real reasons why we engage in said beefs though. It has nothing to do with everyday, practical concerns of Americans.
 
#397
#397
hog88 said:
None of the NATO countries are coming to Ukraines defense anyway. If Putin took all of Ukraine all he would get out of Western Europe is a bunch of bluster.
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I believe so also. They would demand that the US act. And the globalist puppet piece of 💩 currently in the WH will comply and get more of our kids killed.
 
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#399
#399
hog88 said:
There isn’t any sanctions that can be passed to hurt Putin & co. We sanction Putin and he cuts off the NG to Western Europe in winter who do you think blinks first?
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Joes killing it, isn't he?
 
#400
#400
NorthDallas40 said:
If fair and balance means saying whatever is required to shill for Putin we agree.
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No, it means telling the truth and shaming the devil. Plus, I expect more and better out of us because we talk so much s^^t about being the morally superior country.
 
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