War in Ukraine

[Septic]

All of this started by 25+ years of NATO encroachment and the Obama State Department's coup in 2014. Those were the catalysts. And NATO has been pouring gasoline on the fire since 2014.

That's not the same as Russia unifying their motherland. Difference and distinction.

Either it's NATO or rescuing the oppressed people of the Donbass or the de-Nazification of Ukraine.

Pick a lane. We're all exhausted by the whack-a-mole excuses and canned responses you and the other pootin nuthuggers peddle.

 

[hog88]

Or for that matter, any election in Japan or Germany after WWII is illegitimate.

You would have a point if we had forced them to vote on whether to be annexed by the US or continue to be shelled.

 

[Septic]

You would have a point if we had forced them to vote on whether to be annexed by the US or continue to be shelled.

You mean it would be bad form to invade Canada, destroy everything in our path, targeting civilians, installing our own local leaders and forcing "referendums" to see if they wanted to join to tell them they are joining our club?

 

[LouderVol]

How are they sham elections? We already know that Luhansk and Donetsk held referendums on their own a few weeks after the coup in 2014 and Putin rejected their referendums because his desire back then was to push for implementation of the Minsk ceasefire agreements. They've already been down this road before.

"On their own" lol. The russians were already there and had already displaced all of the pro Ukrainian leadership and figures. They also stood over the ballot boxes with guns, and the only option on the referendum was to join Russia.

It's also too bad for you that your timeline is complete crap. As usual.

The "referendums" were held under armed guard in May. The Minsk taskforce didnt even assemble until June, and werent signed until Septemeber. How was Putin trying to uphold something that hadnt even been discussed yet?

 

[Velo Vol]

Not when its being held under armed occupation.

 

[NorthDallas40]

Trying to consolidate their spoils and claim sovereignty before they get their arses ran out of them over the next month.

 

[NorthDallas40]

Explain to me how a peaceful democratic exercise is an escalation of war.

LMAO

 

[Septic]

I'm sure the "no" votes will be recorded without any shenanigans at all by the people who forced out the local leaders of the community and stole their positions.

Oh who are we kidding, these folks will be too sh*thoused on potato juice to get to the first door.

 

[DonjoVol]

It's not a tin foil hat. How many global leaders said it was a chance to reset the globe for economic justice, etc? Goodness, get some news from other sites than pmsnbc. Sheep on son

I like to call it MSNeoconBC.

 

[Septic]

A full withdrawal is not realistic. They need to right now accept the independence of Donbas, Kherson and Zaparozhzhia before the terms change more if they continue further.

Or what? More tactical regrouping?

 

[NorthDallas40]

A full withdrawal is not realistic. They need to right now accept the independence of Donbas, Kherson and Zaparozhzhia before the terms change more if they continue further.

LMFAO they’re getting their asses ran out of every area they’ve occupied since February Moe. And if they can maintain this pace they’ve got a shot at liberating, yes Moe LIBERATING , Crimea.

 

[NorthDallas40]

Or what? More tactical regrouping?

That’s happening regardless.

 

[LSU-SIU]

How many of those votes were to give us even more power than we held? And considering our military has never had to enforce any laws or done anything beyond occupy some bases in those countries it's not the same stratosphere as what the Russians are doing. Especially to the point of forcing them to fight for us or using it as justification to nuke someone.

Potentially nuking them has nothing to do with the Ukraine its just a spot on a map. That area has to be cleared, it really isn't complex. The areas that are pro-Russia will go to with Russia, the areas that aren't will be bombed until its all clear.

And considering our military has never had to enforce any laws or done anything beyond occupy some bases in those countries it's not the same stratosphere as what the Russians are doing.

Huh. The United States just spent 20+ (actually about 30-35 years) years doing exactly what you say it doesn't do.

Maybe just maybe its best the United States stay out of world affairs, right?

 

[evillawyer]

Russia seems to be losing one of these every day.



@Rasputin_Vol what does each one cost, if using Russian eggs to purchase? Guessing that will soon be the de facto Russian currency.

 

[Septic]

Russia seems to be losing one of these every day.



@Rasputin_Vol what does each one cost, if using Russian eggs to purchase? Guessing that will soon be the de facto Russian currency.

How does a Russian egg stack up to Stanley nickels or Shrute bucks?

 

[PKT_VOL]

Bruh.

1. It wont be a peaceful event. Armed men with guns standing over every vote isnt peaceful.
2. It wont be democratic. Willing to bet less than 50% of the total voting population shows up. Also willing to bet the referendum will be weighted. Either with only options to join Russia, or the phrasing will be convoluted to ensure no one chooses the option to stay out. Something like "a. Peacefully join Russia, or b. Continue the violence against the aggressor Ukraine ensuring many of you die if you choose this option. Ignoring that many will still die if they join Russia.
3. By joining Russia those people will be forced to fight for Russia, and have their assets seized by Russia. That's not peaceful.
4. Annexation only comes after a peace treaty, pushing that annexation forward changes the game, hence escalation. It would be like calling a game in the early 3rd quarter after your team has gone flaccid and seen their lead shrink from 4 touchdowns to 1. They are trying to circumvent an ending they see coming/very possible that osnt favorable to them.
5. These same type of votes are exactly how this mess started. In Ukraines eyes this is opening a new phase of the war, so again escalation.

6) They have already tortured and killed many of the outspoken partisans in these regions.

 

[Septic]

6) They have already tortured and killed many of the outspoken partisans in these regions.

Most of the 146 bodies exhumed so far in the northeastern Ukrainian city of Izium were civilians

Note to self. Do NOT go to pre-annexation vote parties in the woods.

 

[Velo Vol]

 

[LouderVol]

Potentially nuking them has nothing to do with the Ukraine its just a spot on a map. That area has to be cleared, it really isn't complex. The areas that are pro-Russia will go to with Russia, the areas that aren't will be bombed until its all clear.



Huh. The United States just spent 20+ (actually about 30-35 years) years doing exactly what you say it doesn't do.

Maybe just maybe its best the United States stay out of world affairs, right?

Maybe it's best every country stay out of others affairs. That would actually be best, and wouldnt give us as many excuses to get involved in every sandbox.

I had quoted Ras on Germany and Japan after giving him the Afghan and Iraqi debacles.

Why does it have to be cleared? It hasnt historically been cleared. It hasnt even historically been pro Russia. Why does this one area have to be cleared? And you said "HAVE" to be.

Ukraine was never going to join NATO before the invasion, now, if there is ever peace, they will. And it's all because of Russia, not the US.

NATO has brought more peace to Russia in the last 70 years than Russia has ever been able to provide itself over its entire existence. NATO is not a threat to Russia unless Russia starts something. The politicians in Russia need NATO to be the bad guys so they can maintain control. It's why they use such charged language.

 

[LSU-SIU]

There was never going to be a diplomatic solution to this war.

Not once the United States got involved.

This war will end with either the defeat of the Russian army

There is no realistic move for that to happen.

or the destruction of Ukraine- maybe both.

This. Most of what is going on is insignificant details. The real war is economic war with Europe.

 

[LSU-SIU]

Why does it have to be cleared? It hasnt historically been cleared. It hasnt even historically been pro Russia. Why does this one area have to be cleared? And you said "HAVE" to be.

The have to have the area cleared there for any rapid deployment to the border by the enemy. The Ukraine only exists as the place where tactical nuclear warfare will be the end result if large deployment of troops happen there, if the troops are already there the next step is across the border.

The Congressional Record has already been provided to you, I would suggest you read it. The strategy is sound, which is why Nato has been using creep methods. There is no win in a war in that area. The only questions are, whether they give up, get kill by conventional bombs or tactical nukes????? i.e. insignificant details

The Ukraine is expendable by all parties.

The misjudgment was a rapid decline in the Russian economy, but almost the opposite has happened.... a rapid economic problem for Europe.

 

[LouderVol]

The have to have the area cleared there for any rapid deployment to the border by the enemy. The Ukraine only exists as the place where tactical nuclear warfare will be the end result if large deployment of troops happen there, if the troops are already there the next step is across the border.

The Congressional Record has already been provided to you, I would suggest you read it.

The Ukraine is expendable by all parties.

Why Ukraine though? Why not Estonia and Latvia? Or soon to be Finland? What do these records say about them? Russia already has thousands of miles to deploy its forces, what does spreading themselves out to cover whatever parts of Ukraine they have gain them?

Russia is apparently worried about nuking it's own territory, history says otherwise, and yet the nuclear fallout from nuking Ukraine will end up in Russia as the winds blow east across Ukraine into Russia. How does the records address that loophole in Russian logic?

How do the records address the escalation from tactical nukes to full blown strategic nukes. There is zero chance either side is willing to accept the other side using any nukes without employing their own. And there is zero chance the nukes stay confined to Ukraine/the west. Russia deploying tactical nukes in Ukraine invites nukes on Russian soil.

Your attempt at an appeal to an outside authority is noted, maybe now you can stand up to defend your own statements instead of hiding behind Congress's skirts. A congress which I imagine you dont hold a very high opinion of.

 

[LSU-SIU]

How do the records address the escalation from tactical nukes to full blown strategic nukes. There is zero chance either side is willing to accept the other side using any nukes without employing their own. And there is zero chance the nukes stay confined to Ukraine/the west. Russia deploying tactical nukes in Ukraine invites nukes on Russian soil.

That is why there isn't suppose to be a large military force there, if they are there.... they could be subject to tactical nukes. Send NATO in, they will probably get nuked in the Ukraine by the time they get deployed in mass.

NATO countries wouldn't get nuked, the Ukraine would.

Your attempt at an appeal to an outside authority is noted, maybe now you can stand up to defend your own statements instead of hiding behind Congress's skirts. A congress which I imagine you dont hold a very high opinion of.

LoL. I am not appealing to anyone, not even sure what that even means. Simply put, the Russians figured out the only way to defend themselves against NATO with 1/20th of the budget is use tactical nuclear weapons as the try and attack. I'm not sure why you are upset. Its not my strategy, its theirs. Either way, there is no real counter other than what the U.S. was doing i.e. creep.

Russia has the biggest tactical nuclear capability in the world, and for a reason... you (Russians) can't match a $1-2t annual military budget. Tactical weapons were really the only solution.

A congress which I imagine you dont hold a very high opinion of.

The Congressional Record is just to show you this is no real secret... it was even televised on CSPAN. LoL

Basically, you are upset at the reason... but the reason is going to be the same tomorrow as well.

 

[USF grad in TN]

Ukraine will win the war | The Spectator
David Petraeus
On the war’s momentum: It has fundamentally shifted, and I'm normally fairly guarded and cautious about this, but the tide clearly has turned because the success of this offensive, as important as it is itself on the ground, is that it reflects a hugely important development: Ukraine has been incomparably better than Russia in recruiting, training, equipping, organising and employing additional forces. Russia has been struggling to do just that, literally running out of soldiers, ammunition tanks, fighting vehicles and so forth. Ukraine is supported superbly by the US and Nato, whereas Russia, even if it declared mobilisation today, could not reverse this fundamental reality. So the implications are stark. They're very, very clear. Ukraine will over time experience tough fighting, more casualties, more punishing Russian strikes on civilian infrastructure. But Ukraine will over time, I think, retake the territory that Russia has seized since 24 February. And it's even conceivable now that they could retake Crimea and the Donbas. And oh, by the way, with what's going on in the front lines, there is insurgent activity now picking up in the Russian rear areas carried out by Ukrainians there as well. So again, this is going to take time. There will be tough fighting, all of that. But this is a disastrous situation for Russia now.

 

[NorthDallas40]

You know Russia is making a really great case that their trailer park trash country should be forceably removed from the world community and just divvy up the residue between the countries in Europe and Asia.