War in Ukraine

[LSU-SIU]

Europe's social, economic, and immigration policies will have more to do with their collapse than Russia.

Absolutely. The Russians don't have to do anything at this point, just sit and watch. The neocons in Europe wanted to use the collapse of Russia to help save themselves, now this will probably accelerate their own fall.

 

[just bob]

Russia shoots down US pilots in Korea.
No WWIII

Russia shoots down US pilots in Vietnam.
No WWIII

Russian Wagner group attacks US specops in Syria.
No WWIII

US complies with the Budapest Memorandum, and gives Ukraine weapons to defend themselves, and every MAGA goes full coward and becomes deathly afraid of "WWIII".

At least take it out before you type, you're a jumbled mess.

F Ukraine. Ukraine doesn't deserve a penny from us. Does he at least eat pineapple for you?

 

[LSU-SIU]

At least take it out before you type, you're a jumbled mess.

F Ukraine. Ukraine doesn't deserve a penny from us. Does he at least eat pineapple for you?

I feel bad for what the U.S. did, and I feel bad about the people dying, but at this point.... as a generalization F them.

But even if someone feels different, what is the plan? It doesn't exist, it never existed.

This conflict was never complex... what comes next for Europe will be.... it might be the most complex thing the world has seen at scale.

 

[BeardedVol]

This is one of your dumbest takes and that’s saying a lot.

The Korean and Vietnam wars were proxy wars, the Soviets used both as testing and training grounds they didn’t commit ground troops to direct combat with US forces. If we go into Ukraine we not only have to drive them out of the country we have to destroy them and remove Putin.

MAGA logic:

Literal Russians soldiers killing or trying to kill Americans.

Fine, no risk of WWIII

US giving Ukraine weapons to defend themselves against a Russian invasion

Will cause WWIII

 

[BeardedVol]

You’re a moron

Excellent rebuttal, coward.

 

[C-south]

You’re a moron

You play RISK one time and you know everything.

 

[Orange_Crush]

You're throwing out a 'red herring' since Ukraine isn't asking the US to fight Russia on their behalf, but regardless of your logical fallacy, I will still never understand MAGA cowardice, and your abject fear of standing up to Putin.

By Z's own mouth, he is asking for "Security Guarantees".

Start at ~ 3:00 mark:



That phrase has very specific meaning when it comes to the history of this ordeal since the 90s, when they broke off from Russia as a sovereign nation.

Another key point was that U.S. State Department lawyers made a distinction between "security guarantee" and "security assurance", referring to the security guarantees that were desired by Ukraine in exchange for non-proliferation. "Security guarantee" would have implied the use of military force in assisting its non-nuclear parties attacked by an aggressor (such as Article 5 of the North Atlantic Treaty for NATO members) while "security assurance" would simply specify the non-violation of these parties' territorial integrity. In the end, a statement was read into the negotiation record that the (according to the U.S. lawyers) lesser sense of the English word "assurance" would be the sole implied translation for all appearances of both terms in all three language versions of the statement.

Budapest Memorandum - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

He has now openly said that he will not sign anything with Russia to end this. He wants us to keep pouring money in. He wants us to guarantee US military force.

Trump's anger was telling him, "You are gambling with WW3! You are gambling with WW3! You are gambling with WW3!"

 

[Orange_Crush]

Russia has to go on the offense to continue the war, and cannot sustain the losses of men and materials required to capture more territory, or even hold the current territory long term.

Satellite Images Reveal Russia Emptying Soviet-Era Tank Depots Amid Heavy Losses

Russia's significant armored vehicle losses have led to the revival of outdated Soviet tanks, as revealed by satellite imagery and UK Defense reports.

united24media.com

Until Ukraine asks the US to send us soldiers to fight, your argument about "US boots on the ground" being the only way they win, is just a red herring.

I get it that you wouldn't defend the US if it were invaded, but Ukrainians are still inclined to defend themselves from Russia, and I'll support them doing so as long as they choose; I would do the same if I were in their position.

That's exactly what he asked for in yesterday's video. It's what he has been asking for, and it's what has been the deal-killer.

 

[Orangeburst]

I think the whole suit thing was such nonsense, but if he was requested to wear a jacket, then hard to argue. His disrespect just compounded.

Strike 2 came just before Friday's meeting, when Zelensky arrived at the White House without a suit or jacket, as requested. It was perceived by White House staffers as disrespectful.

https://www.axios.com/2025/03/01/trump-vance-zelensky-ukraine-oval-office-3-strikes

 

[BeardedVol]

That's exactly what he asked for in yesterday's video. It's what he has been asking for, and it's what has been the deal-killer.

He didn't ask the US to deploy troops to Ukraine to fight Russia, stop lying.

He said that for any ceasefire or treaty to work, it would require real security guarantees, and he's 100% correct. Russia has torn up every treaty it has had with Ukraine, and observed zero ceasefires.

A NATO article 5 type consequence, would be the only guarantee that would stop Russia from rearming and invading again.

 

[Majors]

That's exactly what he asked for in yesterday's video. It's what he has been asking for, and it's what has been the deal-killer.

Zelenskyy will have no choice but to back down and accept Trump's terms. But here’s the genius part—Trump is actually protecting Ukraine without dragging the U.S. into war. By negotiating a mineral deal, Trump ensures that Americans will be involved in Ukraine’s mining industry. This prevents Russia from launching an invasion, because attacking Ukraine would mean endangering American lives. Trump will be right again.

 

[Majors]

He didn't ask the US to deploy troops to Ukraine to fight Russia, stop lying.

He said that for any ceasefire or treaty to work, it would require real security guarantees, and he's 100% correct. Russia has torn up every treaty it has had with Ukraine, and observed zero ceasefires.

A NATO article 5 type consequence, would be the only guarantee that would stop Russia from rearming and invading again.

He’s been asking to get into NATO and any future skirmish between them would obligate the US to enter into direct conflict with Russia.

 

[MontyPython]

You play RISK one time and you know everything.

@hog88 struggles with Chutes & Ladders, wet paper bags and, sadly, his husband recently shot his dog.

 

[MontyPython]

Zelenskyy will have no choice but to back down and accept Trump's terms. But here’s the genius part—Trump is actually protecting Ukraine without dragging the U.S. into war. By negotiating a mineral deal, Trump ensures that Americans will be involved in Ukraine’s mining industry. This prevents Russia from launching an invasion, because attacking Ukraine would mean endangering American lives. Trump will be right again.

So you think Trump would do a 180 and have America enter the war if Russia killed American miners located in the warzone that is Ukraine? Wow.

Also: The terms "genius" and "Trump"... these things simply don't go in the same sentence. Ever.

 

[BeardedVol]

He’s been asking to get into NATO and any future skirmish between them would obligate the US to enter into direct conflict with Russia.

Prior to Trump being in office, Russia would never attack a NATO member, because they knew the consequences.

After yesterday I doubt any of our NATO allies fully believe that we'd actually honor Article 5 if Russia were to attack them.

 

[Sudden Impact]

Europe is going to collapse and it doesn't matter what the U.S. does. My personal opinion, I don't really care and as noted I actually lived there for quite a few years.

Personal Opinion, makes sense.

Living there has no bearing for me as I have live there as well. A lot of pluses and minuses vs the US.

I have visited several old western block countries as well before and after the wall came down. Huge difference in some countries for best and worse in others.

 

[Majors]

You play RISK one time and you know everything.

Underrated post

I took Military Science at UT. I don’t brag about my military leadership experience often enough.

 

[MontyPython]

Well, Trumpers, hope you're happy with Orangeman and his stunt he pulled at the press conference yesterday. Obviously, Trump was blindsided by the fact that Ukraine actually accepted his completely outrageous minerals deal. And, using his pet attack goat Vance, blew up the whole deal in a very public, humiliating way.

For those cheering Trump on, shame on you. Trump is a public embarrassment. The rest of the educated world - and those here who are educated - all just shake our heads in disbelief and disgust.

"America First". What a "policy". Redneck morons around the dirty South rejoice! It's your time to bask in the sunlight of the egocentric and ignorant. The only thing that Donald is capable of doing is destroying things. He has no concept of building a damn thing. Maybe this is why he went bankrupt (physically and morally) what... 6+ times?

This is all going to blow up in Dumb Donald's face in spectacular fashion someday. The ghost of Pooty ain't going bye-bye.

 

[Boston Vol]

Well, Trumpers, hope you're happy with Orangeman and his stunt he pulled at the press conference yesterday. Obviously, Trump was blindsided by the fact that Ukraine actually accepted his completely outrageous minerals deal. And, using his pet attack goat Vance, blew up the whole deal in a very public, humiliating way.

For those cheering Trump on, shame on you. Trump is a public embarrassment. The rest of the educated world - and those here who are educated - we all just shake our heads in disbelief and disgust.

"America First". What a "policy". Redneck morons around the dirty South rejoice! It's your time to bask in the sunlight of the egocentric and ignorant.

This is all going to blow up in Dumb Donald's face in spectacular fashion someday.

Blindsided? They accepted the deal five days ago. As Rubio pointed out, the US was perfectly willing to sign the agreement then and there. It was the Ukrainian delegation who insisted on coming to Washington to make a show of it.

 

[Majors]

So you think Trump would do a 180 and have America enter the war if Russia killed American miners located in the warzone that is Ukraine? Wow.

Also: The terms "genius" and "Trump"... these things simply don't go in the same sentence. Ever.

No, I just don’t think Russia will do anything at all. Which is the stance.

 

[Orange_Crush]

He didn't ask the US to deploy troops to Ukraine to fight Russia, stop lying.

He said that for any ceasefire or treaty to work, it would require real security guarantees, and he's 100% correct. Russia has torn up every treaty it has had with Ukraine, and observed zero ceasefires.

A NATO article 5 type consequence, would be the only guarantee that would stop Russia from rearming and invading again.

His language, by its definition over the past 35 years, he was asking for guarantees that the United States will go into direct military conflict with Russia, while also stating that he would never compromise with Russia for peace.

With an honest look at the situation, that is the only way one can interpret it. One has to jump through unsupported logical hoops to come to any other conclusion.

By comparing it to NATO article 5, you are agreeing. It states that an attack on one member nation is considered an attack on all member nations. Thus, an attack on Ukraine would be considered a direct attack on the US. It would also create US military exercises in Ukraine, thus not just US boots on ground at Russia's border, but ongoing exercises practicing attacks on Russia, from their border.

The NATO Alliance consists of 30 member states from North America and Europe. Article Five of the treaty states that if an armed attack occurs against one of the member states, it should be considered an attack against all members, and other members shall assist the attacked member, with armed forces if necessary.

The primary role of Alliance military forces is to protect peace and to guarantee the territorial integrity, political independence and security of the member states. Alliance forces must be able to deter and defend effectively. The Alliance remains subject to a wide variety of military and non-military risks that are multi-directional and often difficult to predict.

• List of current NATO Exercises

The term NATO Military Exercise includes all exercises for which NATO is the initiating or the joint initiating authority. Associated with NATO Military Exercises are building blocks, such as: seminars, study periods and workshops.

A NATO Military Exercise is scheduled by a NATO Commander. It aims to establish, enhance and display NATO’s Military Capability across the Alliance’s full mission spectrum which is based on the three Alliance military missions:

• Article 5 Collective Defence;
• Non-Article 5 Crisis Response; and
• Consultation and Co-operation.

Technical Difficulties

In Cuba, we went to Midnight on the Nuclear clock over less than that.

 

[Orange_Crush]

Zelenskyy will have no choice but to back down and accept Trump's terms. But here’s the genius part—Trump is actually protecting Ukraine without dragging the U.S. into war. By negotiating a mineral deal, Trump ensures that Americans will be involved in Ukraine’s mining industry. This prevents Russia from launching an invasion, because attacking Ukraine would mean endangering American lives. Trump will be right again.

The mineral deal is an inherent security assurance, short of the security guarantee Z is asking for. It is the right answer, and is much more than the US getting a return on the taxpayer money we've sank into this conflict.

 

[Orange_Crush]

He’s been asking to get into NATO and any future skirmish between them would obligate the US to enter into direct conflict with Russia.

AND have boots on ground running military exercises on their border, even if they aren't attacking.

I wonder how the US would respond if Canada got so upset at Trump that Russia gave such "guarantees" and started running war games on our Northern border?

Or Mexico at the southern.

 

[C-south]

Underrated post

I took Military Science at UT. I don’t brag about my military leadership experience often enough.

 

[C-south]

@hog88 struggles with Chutes & Ladders, wet paper bags and, sadly, his husband recently shot his dog.

My post wasn’t aimed at Hogg