War in Ukraine

[TheDeeble]

And those referendums are going to be completely ignored by every country not named Russia regardless of the outcomes. Just like all their other BS referendums to date Larry.

And no you clearly don’t know what winning is.

Video from the referendums.

 

[LouderVol]

Why are we talking about the United States? Why is the United States supplying them with arms, money, training, and intelligence? That's the problem.... we're talking about the United States. None of this is our business.

It's also none of Russia's business. We were invited, just like Russia was to Syria. Although we dont have our troops on this battlefield.

 

[LSU-SIU]

It's also none of Russia's business. We were invited, just like Russia was to Syria. Although we dont have our troops on this battlefield.

Well, get into the fray. LoL As an American I would say that is beyond stupid and its really not our business. Of course, they won't listen to me.

Join the fray and see how well that Sunscreen SPF 1,000,000 helps in the Ukraine.... I ain't going. LoL

 

[LouderVol]

You are taking all this very personal and its clouding your ability to rationally think, imo.

How am I taking this personally? I am not resorting to name calling. I am not underlining and bolding statements. I call out both sides. I dont dodge with this same tired excuse quoted here. I answer the questions and refute obvious bs, and dont try to distract with obvious attempts to change the focus of discussion.

 

[LSU-SIU]

How am I taking this personally? I am not resorting to name calling. I am not underlining and bolding statements. I call out both sides. I dont dodge with this same tired excuse quoted here. I answer the questions and refute obvious bs, and dont try to distract with obvious attempts to change the focus of discussion.

Because you keep going over the same stupid **** in attempt to get a different result. Lots of crocodile tears. At the end of the day, none of what you are talking about is going to really change the outcome. And for very good reason, its immaterial.

 

[LouderVol]

Its not. I never said I wouldn't fight someone again, I'm just not going to be in someone's military again taking orders. If I have die because of it, so be it. My days of taking orders like that are over.

If someone really doesn't want to join up, its probably better to put them in jail or something... imo. But usually people eventually go along with the plan.



There are no real moves for the Ukraine on the table that really will change the outcome. This is just about how much the Ukraine loses at this point.

I would tell you the same thing if the Ukraine went to war with the U.S., they have no realistic option on the table to win anything of real value.



Most of this is just observations. 2+2=4

You are taking all this very personal and its clouding your ability to rationally think, imo.

Why do they need to win? I clearly asked if Russia had finally declared war, as that was the verbiage you used. You deflected to Ukraine winning or not? That doesnt matter to Russia declaring war.

Answer the question. Is Russia at war finally?

 

[LSU-SIU]

Why do they need to win?

As I mentioned previously in the thread, "winning a war" is very subjective. There is no way for them to win anything of significant value at this point, meaning its about how much they will lose since the war started.

What realistically can the Ukraine gain of value since January 2022? Nothing, its about the losses.

I clearly asked if Russia had finally declared war, as that was the verbiage you used. You deflected to Ukraine winning or not? That doesnt matter to Russia declaring war.

Answer the question. Is Russia at war finally?

The war is over, its just a matter of how many people die, how much land is obtained and how much of the Ukraine is turned into a parking lot.

You can call it anything you want. You are getting into wordsmith, and that doesn't change anything.

 

[LouderVol]

They won the war, its just about how much they win (and losses incurred for what is gained).

I would say the west continues to escalate, the responses are just the product of the escalation.

So continuing to arm a country is escalation, but throwing 3 times the number of troops into the fight is not? That's illogical.

If they have won why are they mobilizing more troops? Victory always means a draw down. I cant think of one example where the winner suddenly tripled their forces after the fight was decided.

Nothing changed in the war with this offensive but lines on a map. Ukraine is no closer to folding, Russia is having to escalate to stay in the fight.

I imagine in the spring we will see a new offensive from russia once all these conscripts get trained up and the thaw sets in. They will retake some territory. And the war still wont be over. Something substantial needs to change to say this war is over.

 

[LouderVol]

Seems to me most of those on your list were Russian reactions to US actions.

Just like the US responded to Russia buying off Yanukovich.

 

[LSU-SIU]

So continuing to arm a country is escalation, but throwing 3 times the number of troops into the fight is not? That's illogical.

That is the result of the escalation, the dying would have stopped probably in March.

If they have won why are they mobilizing more troops? Victory always means a draw down. I cant think of one example where the winner suddenly tripled their forces after the fight was decided.

Victory is assured, the only thing that is happening is insignificant details i.e. how many die, how much land is annexed, and how much of the Ukraine is turned into a parking lot.

There simply is no winning move(s) for the Ukraine, realistically.

Nothing changed in the war with this offensive but lines on a map. Ukraine is no closer to folding, Russia is having to escalate to stay in the fight.

I imagine in the spring we will see a new offensive from russia once all these conscripts get trained up and the thaw sets in. They will retake some territory. And the war still wont be over. Something substantial needs to change to say this war is over.

The war is over, just a matter of how much is gained/lost.

 

[LouderVol]

The referendums have been known for quite some time. It is likely that is why Ukraine launched their counters when they did, to try and disrupt them from happening.



No. I wasn't. Russia sent about 30k originally, they are mobilizing up to 300k now. A large part of the fighting to this point has been done by militia with the assistance from Russian troops and weapons. I said Russia should mobilize months ago when their light forces were pushed out of Kharkiv the first time. It was becoming obvious the line of contact was too broad for such a small trained force and untrained militas to hold. Russia was embarrassed and exposed a couple of weeks ago in Kharkiv and it seems Putin is finally starting to wake up and realize he is fighting a NATO proxy war in Ukraine. Again, most Russians support this war and if Putin's seat was to get hot it would be from underreaction in regard to Ukraine not overreaction.



Because Ukraine is drafting any men they can to fight. Some are being trained by NATO outside Ukraine and being brought back in. Also, see my response above which deals with this.

So wait you believe the Russians only had 30k deployed in Ukraine? They still have at least 20k around Kherson. You really think Russia was dumb enough to send in that few troops?

If it's so popular why the conscripts? Seems like there should be plenty of volunteers to avoid conscription and locking down your own borders to restrict your own citizens movements.

These conscripts wont be any better than the militias they are already using. It will take them months to be an effective fighting force. We wont see wide scale use of them until the spring.

 

[LouderVol]

Well, get into the fray. LoL As an American I would say that is beyond stupid and its really not our business. Of course, they won't listen to me.

Join the fray and see how well that Sunscreen SPF 1,000,000 helps in the Ukraine.... I ain't going. LoL

We dont need to fight. Just giving them guns is apparently enough to send Russia scrambling. We must be giving Ukraine some of these autonomously killing AR15 WMDs I hear about so much to be causing issues.

 

[LSU-SIU]

We dont need to fight. Just giving them guns is apparently enough to send Russia scrambling. We must be giving Ukraine some of these autonomously killing AR15 WMDs I hear about so much to be causing issues.

Of course, the United States will give them weapons until the last Ukrainian is dead. Nobody cares, they will have served their purpose.

 

[LouderVol]

Because you keep going over the same stupid **** in attempt to get a different result. Lots of crocodile tears. At the end of the day, none of what you are talking about is going to really change the outcome. And for very good reason, its immaterial.

Change the outcome that this war will drag on and on? That is exactly what I am expecting, and have been this whole time.

You seem really caught up in your mental image of me. You should probably move on from it and focus on what I am actually saying.

 

[NorthDallas40]

Because you keep going over the same stupid **** in attempt to get a different result. Lots of crocodile tears. At the end of the day, none of what you are talking about is going to really change the outcome. And for very good reason, its immaterial.

The irony in this clueless post is simply delicious

 

[apevol]

Of course, the United States will give them weapons until the last Ukrainian is dead. Nobody cares, they will have served their purpose.

Yes, the tired retreaded tHe EnGlIsH wilL fIgHt To ThE lASt FrEnChMaN take

 

[LSU-SIU]

Change the outcome that this war will drag on and on? That is exactly what I am expecting, and have been this whole time.

You seem really caught up in your mental image of me. You should probably move on from it and focus on what I am actually saying.

Oh I have said it could go on for decades, but victory is assured. This war is over, the economic war is just getting good.... we'll see how that pans out. Its just a matter of the insignificant details.

 

[LouderVol]

As I mentioned previously in the thread, "winning a war" is very subjective. There is no way for them to win anything of significant value at this point, meaning its about how much they will lose since the war started.

What realistically can the Ukraine gain of value since January 2022? Nothing, its about the losses.



The war is over, its just a matter of how many people die, how much land is obtained and how much of the Ukraine is turned into a parking lot.

You can call it anything you want. You are getting into wordsmith, and that doesn't change anything.

So then you admit you were wrong the first time, Russia is not at war. And not because Putin hasnt declared it, but because it's over.

And as a reminder I only call the actual fighting the war. And also apparently the economic war is not over, so that is also not what you were talking about.

I am just asking simple yes or no questions, and you have to go to defensive rants to avoid giving simple answers.

The value is set by Ukraine. It may not matter to you or Russia, but it may still matter to them. If freedom from Russia is all they care about, as long as the fight goes on, they are winning. Even if they lose every battle, as long ad they are free to fight, they could be winning in their own mind, and thus the fight for them is merited.

 

[LSU-SIU]

So then you admit you were wrong the first time, Russia is not at war. And not because Putin hasnt declared it, but because it's over.

Jesus dude. This isn't difficult. It doesn't matter if you call it a war or an invasion or whatever. Its just a matter of how much is lost by the Ukrainians.

The value is set by Ukraine. It may not matter to you or Russia, but it may still matter to them. If freedom from Russia is all they care about, as long as the fight goes on, they are winning. Even if they lose every battle, as long ad they are free to fight, they could be winning in their own mind, and thus the fight for them is merited.

"freedom" is another subjective word, like "winning a war". They are not going to be able to win anything of value in the real world, realistically. And they are losing freedom, not gaining it... which is why they can't go into parts in the West.

If they all want to die and collect 99 virgins in heaven and they think that is victory, they are free to do so. There is nothing wrong with that. In the real world, its just a matter of how much they lose.

 

[apevol]

https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/co...hnic/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

 

[volgr]

It's also none of Russia's business. We were invited, just like Russia was to Syria. Although we dont have our troops on this battlefield.

We were invited in, after running the previous owner out and installing friendly owners.

 

[apevol]

We were invited in, after running the previous owner out and installing friendly owners.

 

[NorthDallas40]

We were invited in, after running the previous owner out and installing friendly owners.

The factual record once again disagrees with your stooge cheat Larry. Shocking I tell ya.

Ukraine parliament removes Yanukovich, who flees Kiev in "coup"

 

[KB5252]

The vast majority of Russians are behind this operation. This is the Western Death Cult propaganda machine doing what it does best. Any protest, any pushback, etc will be magnified and amplified to western audiences who are too ignorant to know better. Russia lost the propaganda war months ago. No one holds a candle to western media.

The packed flights out of Russia, the insane lines at borders to get out......... Come on man, this just makes you look silly. This is Baghdad Bob level of denial.

 

[volgr]

So wait you believe the Russians only had 30k deployed in Ukraine? They still have at least 20k around Kherson. You really think Russia was dumb enough to send in that few troops?

It was a special military operation. They were assisting pro-Russian milita's. I have been saying this from the start. Yes, most Russian forces are currently in southern Ukraine, which is why Ukraine was able to easily cruise through Northern Ukraine.

If it's so popular why the conscripts? Seems like there should be plenty of volunteers to avoid conscription and locking down your own borders to restrict your own citizens movements.

Because Russia is fighting a proxy war with the West and there is no way to know how this will end. They are covering their bases. Those being called up to go to Ukraine are reserves, not conscripts.

These conscripts wont be any better than the militias they are already using. It will take them months to be an effective fighting force. We wont see wide scale use of them until the spring.

Like I said above, conscripts will be trained in the coming months in case this blossoms into something much bigger. They aren't being sent to Ukraine, atleast not as a fighting force, maybe as peacekeepers in Russian held areas. Russia has plenty of trained troops and reserves to call on.