War in Ukraine

#45,951
#45,951
Velo Vol said:
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This is my shocked face.

Everyone knows that the last thing you need to do and the least legally important item when it comes to controlling land is to know where the boundaries are.

How do you hold a representative vote if you dont even know what area/people is being represented?
 
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#45,952
#45,952
LSU-SIU said:
Maybe? So?

The Ukraine has been sentenced by the major parties for destruction. What goes on there is mostly moot to the rest of the world. Notice how you don't see anymore coverage about Afghanistan, why? Nobody cares, you will eventually get the same thing for the Ukraine.
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So what does Ukraine care how much destruction?
 
#45,955
#45,955
Rasputin_Vol said:
Well first off, Russia isn't losing and you know that. Secondly, the US and UK have the motivation, means and history to start a false flag operation if things get too far out of hand. The US has no other option but to escalate.

Assuming the Russians would nuke their reunited territory and endanger their own people is as ridiculous as assuming the Russians would blow up their own pipelines.
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What in recent history or extended history makes you think that Putin or any Russian leader cares about the lives of Russians? At the very least he was willing to conscript 300k of them.

And when you call for using nukes, even just tactical nukes, on Ukraine, that includes a sizable number of the ethnic Russians Putin was out to "save".

Even without the fallout.
 
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#45,959
#45,959
Rasputin_Vol said:
Russia is fine. They shook up some leadership and are coming back with more reinforcements. They simply didn't have enough men in the SMO to secure all of these areas. That will change in the next few weeks.
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Why do liberated areas need to be secured? Only conquered areas need securing.
 
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#45,960
#45,960
hog88 said:
There has only be 1 actual Russian president other than Putin since the breakup of the soviet union and that was Yeltsin.
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I was actually thinking about Gorbachev, but I guess he was considered more Soviet than Russian. Don't forget Medvedev had the title for a while, too, after the Soviet breakup - not sure how reasonable he was, but he did seem less thuggish than Putin ... although that's a lot like saying somebody was to the right of Lenin or Stalin.
 
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#45,961
#45,961
LouderVol said:
What in recent history or extended history makes you think that Putin or any Russian leader cares about the lives of Russians? At the very least he was willing to conscript 300k of them.

And when you call for using nukes, even just tactical nukes, on Ukraine, that includes a sizable number of the ethnic Russians Putin was out to "save".

Even without the fallout.
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He is not conscripting Russians, He is conscripting all the ethnic minorities across all of Russia. They are expendable, not like real Russians.
 
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#45,962
#45,962
AM64 said:
I was actually thinking about Gorbachev, but I guess he was considered more Soviet than Russian. Don't forget Medvedev had the title for a while, too, after the Soviet breakup - not sure how reasonable he was, but he did seem less thuggish than Putin ... although that's a lot like saying somebody was to the right of Lenin or Stalin.
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Medvedev just kept the seat warm until for Putin until he was eligible to run again, Putin was still in control since Med appointed him Prime Minister.
 
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#45,965
#45,965
LSU-SIU said:
Maybe? So?

The Ukraine has been sentenced by the major parties for destruction. What goes on there is mostly moot to the rest of the world. Notice how you don't see anymore coverage about Afghanistan, why? Nobody cares, you will eventually get the same thing for the Ukraine.
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You dont see anything about Afghanistan because we arent fighting there....

Just like the coverage of Kharkiv has dried up after the fighting there largely ceased.

The media follows the current conflict.

What should they be saying now in the US? I really don't get your stance. It's bad that we are involved in other people's business. But it's also bad when we arent involved in Afghanistan's business?
 
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#45,971
#45,971
Rasputin_Vol said:
I'm not sure where you are going with this comment. What does antiwar protesting and bombing Dresden have to do with each other?

I hope you are not suggesting that we were bombing the s^^t out of civilians in Germany in order to save them and cause regime change, because your own example of antiwar protests in Vietnam disproves that line of thinking. Was it necessary for the Vietnamese to bomb the hell out of Los Angeles or Topeka in order to create antiwar sentiment here at home?


Were? That is past tense. You act as though we are not engaged in these "wastes of time, energy, resources, and most of all, lives" right now. Yet, we have the nerve to finger wag at Russia for defending their people and maintain a security buffer within their realm of influence.



There was nothing noble about inserting ourselves in what was essentially a civil war in Vietnam anymore than it being noble for you to openly admit that we are using a proxy against a far better foe that is grinding their army down. Cannon fodder... This could have been resolved anytime in the prior 30 years before February 24th, 2022 with an ink pen instead of rifles. All NATO had to do was either stay where they were and not move east, or better yet, NATO should have just disappeared after the break up of the USSR. And as a sidebar, we should have moved our troops out of Germany when the UK, France and Soviets did. That would have been in the long term best interests of Germany and they wouldn't have been an occupied vassal of the US that has no independence or self-determination. But of course, it is about keeping the Americans in, the Russians out and Germany down. It is clear that NATO's agenda even after 1991 has been to rein in Germany and Russia in the interests of the US and her allies.
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You can call Vietnam (Korea, too) a civil was if you like, but you could just as easily call it a revolution, or simple outright takeover of countries by outside forces. In any case both the Soviets and the Chinese were exporting communism to former colonies around the globe - and calling it "wars of liberation". Liberation would have been driving a colonizer out and letting the locals decide, but that wasn't the communist way. You chastise us for trying to bring democracy to countries and regions, but don't seem to have a problem with Russia/Soviet and Chinese bringing communist enslavement . That seems a bit naïve, or maybe just one sided.

Perhaps we did have a skewed view of communism as some monolithic entity - probably for good reason when you look at the Soviet bloc. However you can't ignore the the Sino/Soviet influence in the SE Asia "civil" wars; nor can you ignore things like the Sino/Soviet backed thousands of Vietnamese troops in Laos after all other parties had removed in respect of the Geneva treaty agreeing to Laotian neutrality in 1962. Remember it was the Cold War and the West was fighting Sino/Soviet inspired and supported (doctrine, goods, arms, and troops) takeover around the globe.
 
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#45,972
#45,972
DonjoVol said:
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I have said since the start. This is similar to the Winter War. Doesnt matter who is winning on the battlefield if you can just outlast your opponent, a lot of that goes back to what the people know. Propaganda runs deep on both sides.
 
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#45,974
#45,974
IluvdoubleD's said:
Things are desperate in Iran. The government sent in militias to just randomly start beating and shooting people. The militias busted into a top university (sharif technology), and started shooting and beating the students and teachers. The images are bloody and violent. The university students have joined the fight.
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If there is any place in the world that should just self eradicate or self immolate it is the ME sandbox ... all of it. Then we can get the oil in peace without dealing with hopped up Islamic disciples.
 
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#45,975
#45,975
LouderVol said:
This is my shocked face.

Everyone knows that the last thing you need to do and the least legally important item when it comes to controlling land is to know where the boundaries are.

How do you hold a representative vote if you dont even know what area/people is being represented?
Click to expand...

It always helps the cause if you can include sympathetic outside voters to support the cause. It follows our own dem strategy that local issues need not be left to the locals when more "educated" outsiders know better.
 
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