War in Ukraine

We should be looking to ease tensions, not trying to get into a d^ck measuring contest with another nuclear power.

What have we done to escalate tensions this time? We're not the ones deploying a 100,000+ invasion force on the border, we're not the ones pushing out war propaganda that Goebbels would be proud of, and we're not the ones who are controlling the separatist forces who have escalated fighting in the Donbas either the last few weeks. Name a single thing that the US/West has done for Putin to take this step?
 
Yet Putin's Russia is the only country that has invaded and annexed the sovereign territory of another country in recent memory...

By this definition, history is full of "Hitlers" (many of whom we regard as honorable and admirable men). Many of us have come to understand, however, that "a Hitler" in common parlance is someone against whom the neocons and their fellow-travellers want us to go to war.

Let's not forget that we've done more than our share of the invading part in recent memory -- sundering Kosovo from the sovereign nation of Yugoslavia and turning it over to narcotics-trafficking jihadists; effecting regime change in the sovereign nations of Iraq and Libya and handing the peoples of both over to the rapacity of barbarians; bombing the sovereign nation of Syria in support of jihadists who would ravage minority religious communities (including the Christians) should they ever come to power.

The warmongers ask us to believe simultaneously that, on the one hand, our recent (and disasterous) invasions of sovereign nations were just, and, on the other, that the Russian annexation of the Crimea is the work of a modern-day Hitler whose rapacity knows no limit. Yet, the Crimea was part of Russia until Krushchev transferred it in 1954 to the Ukraine (a constituent republic of the Soviet Union) in a symbolic act. It was part of the Soviet Union (with both Russia and Ukraine) until twenty-three years before its reannexation. It is majority ethnic-Russian. Its annexation (executed in response to the junta in the Ukraine) caused six deaths (three military and three civilian). The citizens of the Ukraine made no effort to defend it-- over 9,000 Ukrainian soldiers and officers and over 7,000 civilian bureaucrats defected to the Russians (fellow-citizenship with whom every Ukrainian over the age of 23 had once enjoyed). This, we are told, is the great crime of the century (a million dead Iraqis and the shattered ancient Church of Mesopotamia might disagree).

Was Russia's annexation of the Crimea just? I don't know that it was, but the case is far from black and white (however much the warmongers would have us believe otherwise), nor does it portend further such annexations without limit. Until vital American interests are threatened, we should let the Russians and Ukrainians sort things out themselves (offering up our prayers that they and the other peoples of the world may live together in peace).

Our forefathers fought for America and for American interests. They did not go out in search of monsters to slay. It's time that we return to their wise and just example.
 
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Yes, let's march in the streets when you now live in a country whose leader poisons opposition figures with radioactive material. Look up what's happened to the Crimean Tatars since annexation.
Saddam
Gaddafi
Assad
The Taliban

We've had so much success rescuing these countries and pushing away these cruel leaders. Let's do it again with a nuclear peer...
 
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What have we done to escalate tensions this time? We're not the ones deploying a 100,000+ invasion force on the border, we're not the ones pushing out war propaganda that Goebbels would be proud of, and we're not the ones who are controlling the separatist forces who have escalated fighting in the Donbas either the last few weeks. Name a single thing that the US/West has done for Putin to take this step?
The 2014 coup
 
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I'm talking the here and now.
It's all related to that event (and others). This has been brewing.

Also, glad you acknowledge our involvement in the 2014 regime change. You consider that old history based on your reply...
 
They voted in a referendum to join Russia. No one in Crimea is complaining. They're just fine with the present arrangement.
Oh the vote during an Russian occupation where over 90% of the electorate turned out and 97% voted the same way?

That vote?

You’re a sorry excuse for a fool.
 
No one said anything about us interfering in their “elections”
Then what is your point? That the election was rigged?

Think about this before you answer, because we allegedly had rigged elections in 2016 and 2020 in America depending on who you talk to.
 
Then what is your point? That the election was rigged?

Think about this before you answer, because we allegedly had rigged elections in 2016 and 2020 in America depending on who you talk to.


The issue is not whether they made a concerted effort to interfere, that's established fact.

The only issue is whether they had any actual effect on the outcome. I don't think there's any way to know that with any certainty.
 
The issue is not whether they made a concerted effort to interfere, that's established fact.

The only issue is whether they had any actual effect on the outcome. I don't think there's any way to know that with any certainty.
Are you saying they didn't have any cameras showing boxes of mail in ballots being pulled out from behind a curtain after they closed the ballot count for the night?
 
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The western ruling class has been an abject failure for so so long. They have lost all legitimacy. All for incredibly selfish and short term gain. Russia could have been an ally if they had wanted, but instead they plundered it. China didn't need to be a foe - but deindustrialization was economically advantageous for the ruling class---and who cares- f*** the working man, right? The Islamic world's democracies were strangled in the cradle for trying to better their people's lives with natural resources. Endless wars for profit.

It is clear that western democracy is controlled by the oligarch class.. It works exclusively for their benefit. The grand notion of "freedom and liberty and opportunity" for all is/was a a tattered myth.
 
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The western ruling class has been an abject failure for so so long. They have lost all legitimacy. All for incredibly selfish and short term gain. Russia could have been an ally if they had wanted, but instead they plundered it. China didn't need to be a foe - but deindustrialization was economically advantageous for the ruling class---and who cares- f*** the working man, right? The Islamic world's democracies were strangled in the cradle for trying to better their people's lives with natural resources. Endless wars for profit.

It is clear that western democracy is controlled by the oligarch class.. It works exclusively for their benefit. The grand notion of "freedom and liberty and opportunity" for all is/was a a tattered myth.
Why can't most Americans come to terms with this and not get in their emotions? This country has made mistakes. It happened. But we can fix or amend things by simply admitting what we did and showing a genuine desire to move towards peace and prosperity.

We are so close, yet so far away from peace because of these leeches and vultures running our country.
 
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The western ruling class has been an abject failure for so so long. They have lost all legitimacy. All for incredibly selfish and short term gain. Russia could have been an ally if they had wanted, but instead they plundered it. China didn't need to be a foe - but deindustrialization was economically advantageous for the ruling class---and who cares- f*** the working man, right? The Islamic world's democracies were strangled in the cradle for trying to better their people's lives with natural resources. Endless wars for profit.

It is clear that western democracy is controlled by the oligarch class.. It works exclusively for their benefit. The grand notion of "freedom and liberty and opportunity" for all is/was a a tattered myth.

It‘s not just the western democracies that are controlled by “oligarchs“.
 
Water pipes burst all the time, especially when the temp is 50+ degrees. And when a pipe bursts in within a facility as large as SFA, gotta evacuate

It would seem pipes bursting at a facility would be a very rare occasion. Good thing this rare event doesn't happen on the most important nights.
 

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