War in Ukraine

You consider Ukraine to be a military peer to Russia? Thanks for confirming my previous post.

Unlike many on your side, I don't go out of my way to disparage Ukrainian troops. Their leadership, sure, they are fools. They were a well trained NATO force. Comparably trained to Russian troops? Likely so. Problem is they lack the size and weapons to be a military peer to Russia. The West has tried to help overcome those disadvantages, but in the end it has only led to prolonged death and destruction of Ukraine.
 
Unlike many on your side, I don't go out of my way to disparage Ukrainian troops. Their leadership, sure, they are fools. They were a well trained NATO force. Comparably trained to Russian troops? Likely so. Problem is they lack the size and weapons to be a military peer to Russia. The West has tried to help overcome those disadvantages, but in the end it has only led to prolonged death and destruction of Ukraine.

LOL

If Russia had a professional Army that was well trained and well equipped they would have taken Ukraine in less than a month but alas Russia didn't and here we are. I'm sure Putin fully believed the pencil whipped reports he received about the Army's readiness and that points back to the corrupt officer corp.
 
Just like you are assuming most of Ukraines western trained soldiers died at the start of the war I am assuming many of Russias elite that took Mauripol also died.

Russia did lose some of their best. However, it wasn't just Russians in Mariupol. You had Wagner, Chechens, militas, etc. So those losses were spread out. Add to that, Russia has far more numbers than Ukraine. So their losses aren't magnified the way they are with Ukraine. Compounding that, Ukraine doesn't really have anything in reserve and training large numbers of new conscripts isn't easy to do in Ukraine, so they have to be sent to NATO Countries and brought back in. All problems Russia does not face.

You are making the same argument you accused me of, with a side of not reading what I actually said. I didnt say Russia only had T62s and AK74s left. I just pointed out there is older equipment in use, and its evidenced with what gets captured.

You are playing on the western narrative that Russia is ill equipped by pointing out some of their older machines have been captured, without saying where and when they were captured or what they were being used for. All pertinent info.

How far was their offensive supposed to go?

According to Zelensky, it would go until Ukraine takes back what they consider to be their land. However, it went until it met resistance where Russia had reformed their lines and hasn't moved much since. Now those lines are being further reinforced. So, how does Ukraine maintain this large line of contact? How do they continue to push these newly reinforced lines further back?

The Ukrainians still have some effective artillery and HIMARs or other similar guided missile system. That's how they are able to strike these bridges, or the Crimean Airport, or those rail lines in Russia. The Ukrainians arent out of the fight by any stretch of the imagination.

War is always unpredictable. Of course they aren't out of the fight, but I just don't see how the recent offensives do anything to help them long term (for the reasons discussed above and with Russia now seemingly fully committed to this war).
 
LOL

If Russia had a professional Army that was well trained and well equipped they would have taken Ukraine in less than a month but alas Russia didn't and here we are. I'm sure Putin fully believed the pencil whipped reports he received about the Army's readiness and that points back to the corrupt officer corp.

Instead of dealing with my examples of Mariupol and Donbas, you go back to making up your own arbitrary expectations.
 
Instead of dealing with my examples of Mariupol and Donbas, you go back to making up your own arbitrary expectations.

You're examples are a mummer's farce, Russia should have taken the territory it did and more had they had a professional Army. Ukraine probably had a slightly better trained military than Iraq did in 2003 but much smaller.
 
Much like when The Squad first came into the House and immediately voted for Pelosi as Speaker...they once again quickly fold to the Establishment...
 
Which makes me question many of you on the right...when you are standing shoulder to shoulder with the Left on this issue, many of whom impeached Trump over Ukraine...does, that not make you question the issue a little further?
 
Which makes me question many of you on the right...when you are standing shoulder to shoulder with the Left on this issue, many of whom impeached Trump over Ukraine...does, that not make you question the issue a little further?
Sibling fights are nothing new Larry. Usually all siblings can unite and ridicule the moron thug kid down the street picking on someone half his size and are generally willing to help have his ass kicked too.

In other words your home boy Pootin crapped the bed so bad that even people with diametrically opposing political views that they’ll likely not reconcile anytime soon can look at this situation and see just what an idiot he is.
 
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Which makes me question many of you on the right...when you are standing shoulder to shoulder with the Left on this issue, many of whom impeached Trump over Ukraine...does, that not make you question the issue a little further?
Why? Because each individual issue must be politically polarizing and one side must always be completely right and the other completely wrong?

Seems legit.
 
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Russia did lose some of their best. However, it wasn't just Russians in Mariupol. You had Wagner, Chechens, militas, etc. So those losses were spread out. Add to that, Russia has far more numbers than Ukraine. So their losses aren't magnified the way they are with Ukraine. Compounding that, Ukraine doesn't really have anything in reserve and training large numbers of new conscripts isn't easy to do in Ukraine, so they have to be sent to NATO Countries and brought back in. All problems Russia does not face.



You are playing on the western narrative that Russia is ill equipped by pointing out some of their older machines have been captured, without saying where and when they were captured or what they were being used for. All pertinent info.



According to Zelensky, it would go until Ukraine takes back what they consider to be their land. However, it went until it met resistance where Russia had reformed their lines and hasn't moved much since. Now those lines are being further reinforced. So, how does Ukraine maintain this large line of contact? How do they continue to push these newly reinforced lines further back?



War is always unpredictable. Of course they aren't out of the fight, but I just don't see how the recent offensives do anything to help them long term (for the reasons discussed above and with Russia now seemingly fully committed to this war).
Total Russian forces at the start 150k, total Ukrainian forces, allegedly, 500k. You have always argued that Ukraine outnumbered Russians, so how do the Russians now have more men to spread out the losses? That 150k was inclusive I was told, it was only like 50k Russians. The only way they can spread out the losses is if they constantly rotated the guys during the offensive. It doesnt matter if they had 100k Chechens to soak up losses if only the Russians are doing the fighting, that means only Russians are dying.

Uh. They were captured from the front line, at least I never heard about Ukraine seizing some Russian supply depots far back from the line. What else would you even use tanks for? Soldiers pretty much never carry two main weapons, so the only way to get the AK74s would be to take them from soldiers using them. Even if they were supplies captured from slightly behind the line that implies Russia was planning on having to use them to have them so close to the battlefield. The western propaganda says the Russians are using Mosin Nagants and AK47/Ms, not 74s like I referenced.

That's a strategic plan, not a mission specific goal for the offensives. Even so it doesnt make it a failure. Were Russia's previous offensives failures because they havent denazified Ukraine? These offensives arent big single pushes that win the war in one fight. You need metric eff tons more or better armor than your enemy to do that, see USA vs Iraq. With infantry, even mechanized, you are limited in how far and fast you could push. This is you going back and assigning failure after changing the goals. Similar to you changed Russia's goal in the "feint" towards Kiev.

I agree with the last. I dont think it changes the war dramatically. But Ukraines ability to go on any real counter offensive is a positive sign for them. Putin is a dang fool if it took him till the Ukraine offensive to take his war serious. He has had months to realize his initial impression was wrong. This whole time it sounds like Putin has had incredibly bad Intel. Ukraine would fold quickly, ukrainians would welcome them, the west wouldnt back Ukraine, Ukraine couldnt go on the attack. With that history in this conflict I am not seeing any reason to give Putin the benefit of the doubt.
 
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Which makes me question many of you on the right...when you are standing shoulder to shoulder with the Left on this issue, many of whom impeached Trump over Ukraine...does, that not make you question the issue a little further?
Probably a bad time to make this argument when (clownishly) the people furthest on the left just released a letter questioning the spending.
 
Which makes me question many of you on the right...when you are standing shoulder to shoulder with the Left on this issue, many of whom impeached Trump over Ukraine...does, that not make you question the issue a little further?
Ras just admitted the very most left group in DC, the Squad, was correct in pushing the US away from supporting Ukraine. Seems like the same acceptance would apply to any left/right argument on giving credit where it's due.
 
Maybe I havent scrolled far enough down but the problem is street names and monuments. The rest seems to be listing the atrocities of these guys, havent seen anything actually pointing to policy, these guys in power, or changes in public opinion.

I would hardly call that a real problem worth invading over. Just like over here with the Confederate generals, does tearing down a statue and changing a name change anything?

And it's not so strange if you take a step back and look at it. Ukraine is currently being invaded by a foreign power, Russia. This has sparked nationalist feelings. Thus references back to other examples of Ukrainian nationalists is going to be more popular than ever. Especially in this case cause those same Ukrainian Nazis fought the Russians.

And considering the government is made up of fewer Nazis now than 2012, I am not worried about them actually having a Nazi problem, and that article did nothing to push the argument forward.
Many of these monuments were built and streets were named after Nazis since 2014. Did you miss that part? Even mainstream news sources documented the Nazi and ultranationalist problems they have been having since 2014. Now that the military industrial complex is profiting off this war the same media who reported on it previously now has to be quiet. They are sweeping it under the rug even though the problem still exists. What I would like to know is why are you and others downplaying this?

Would you be okay if white South Africans started building statues of apartheid leaders and naming streets after them? I could only imagine what the reaction on here would be.
And John McCain giving a speech with the leader of the Svoboda Party standing next to him would be the equivalent of a politician here giving a speech with David Duke standing beside them.
 
Apparently you and others are unaware that you all are supporting fascism when you support vaccine mandates.

Libertarianism is anarchy. It only works if people have a basic framework built on values like honesty and trust. Look around at society and those don't universally exist. We even had to make laws with respect to monopolistic behavior to keep predators from devouring all the other companies. Otherwise you get no selection of products and whatever the monopoly wants to charge. Libertarianism is a nice concept; it just doesn't work because people are who we are. Atlas Shrugged is still one of my favorite books; I've read most of Ayn Rand's non-fiction stuff, too; in the end unless you live among purists at heart in a place called Shangri La, it's a bunch of happy horse crap.

Here's one basic example for you to consider. What do you suppose would happen if we decided to eliminate rules of the road? No traffic signals, signs, drive on whatever side of the road you wish, etc? You think that "facist" tyranny doesn't keep you safer than anarchy on the road?
 
Why? Because each individual issue must be politically polarizing and one side must always be completely right and the other completely wrong?

Didn't say that. I said it should you make you highly question an issue when you find yourself and your enemy (they would consider you the enemy, if you want to soften it, those whom you regularly disagree with) standing shoulder to shoulder.
 
I agree with the last. I dont think it changes the war dramatically. But Ukraines ability to go on any real counter offensive is a positive sign for them. Putin is a dang fool if it took him till the Ukraine offensive to take his war serious. He has had months to realize his initial impression was wrong. This whole time it sounds like Putin has had incredibly bad Intel. Ukraine would fold quickly, ukrainians would welcome them, the west wouldnt back Ukraine, Ukraine couldnt go on the attack. With that history in this conflict I am not seeing any reason to give Putin the benefit of the doubt.

I would agree with this part.
 
Yes. That is exactly what I am saying and i don't back away from it.

I asked you guys way back in February, "What good do threse sanctions do for the average American or for the average European"? And none of you clowns came up with a good answer. This entire conflict against Russia was unnecessary and totally avoidable if we had actually diplomacy and actual people that were wanting to have mutually benficial trade. Europe, obviously is caught up in the green agenda nonsense... we all understand that. But to corner Europe into a situation where they either have to choose between Russian piepline gas or more expensive and unreliable LNG shipped from the US... we are not looking out for the best interests of the average person in Europe. Nor is any of this in the best interests of the average person on Main Street USA. You are a clown if you think this benefits average folk.

You're beginning to understand that few countries have the means to survive without outside resources, and that puts the US, Russia, and China in a unique position because the landmasses of each hold valuable and necessary resources, arable land, adequate space for decent living conditions, and the vast size makes each almost unconquerable. The real struggle is protecting the rest of the globe so that they aren't forcibly annexed to become part of the "big 3" (or whatever) or colonized by the major lesser powers like went on for centuries. I generally agree we shouldn't be the world's policeman and that the world should be a place where countries trade feely among themselves for necessary resources. Unfortunately history says that it doesn't work that well - Britain (among others) had colonialism to provide needs, Germany started a war to get what it needed, etc. You might say diplomacy has generally failed when one country needs or wants something another has.

Russia had the opportunity to leave Ukraine and other places alone, but acted out of force. Europe is not without resources such as oil, coal, etc; but chose to rely on an untrustworthy source instead. When has any government or really any corporation or other partly been altruistic and looked out for the average person? Doesn't happen. Some are better at it, but in the end those in control always look out for No 1 first. I've said all along that the most destructive thing to an economy is the cost of energy ... that is the lubricant that makes the world work. Yet it seems a lesson nobody is capable of understanding. OPEC banded together to artificially inflate prices and control supply, the commodities market is rampant with global speculation, and no one seems to care about the damage ... have you seen Europeans or the EU raise any flags about that?
 


Meanwhile in Russia. Seems the news cycle was controlled when Biden couldn't get this deal done months ago.


Griner should have left her drugs at home and just bought replacements from Putin's Russian mob buddies after she got to Russia.
 
Many of these monuments were built and streets were named after Nazis since 2014. Did you miss that part? Even mainstream news sources documented the Nazi and ultranationalist problems they have been having since 2014. Now that the military industrial complex is profiting off this war the same media who reported on it previously now has to be quiet. They are sweeping it under the rug even though the problem still exists. What I would like to know is why are you and others downplaying this?

Would you be okay if white South Africans started building statues of apartheid leaders and naming streets after them? I could only imagine what the reaction on here would be.
And John McCain giving a speech with the leader of the Svoboda Party standing next to him would be the equivalent of a politician here giving a speech with David Duke standing beside them.
I frankly dont care when they were built, bad dudes are bad dudes. But I addressed a possible, non Nazi reason. National pride/nationalism. In the look for historical references of Anti Russian ukrainians those are the biggest. Doesnt mean anyone should like it, but it's hardly invasion worthy.

Didnt we elect one of those guys giving speeches next to David Duke? Can russia invade us?

And you continue to ignore that since McCain gave that speech Svoboda has lost 36 seats, all but 1 that they held. McCains speech did a better job deNazifying Ukraine than Russia has.

Again street names and statues has to be the absolutely dumbest argument to invade a country I have ever heard. Even BLM isnt that weak minded.

You really think Putin rolled in there to change a few street signs? Like if they were torn down or changed Putin takes his boys back home, with a Mission Accomplished banner hung across their diesel powered air craft carrier as it sinks in drydock? It's about power/ego, nothing more nothing less. The Nazi street signs arent hurting anyone.
 
You're beginning to understand that few countries have the means to survive without outside resources, and that puts the US, Russia, and China in a unique position because the landmasses of each hold valuable and necessary resources, arable land, adequate space for decent living conditions, and the vast size makes each almost unconquerable. The real struggle is protecting the rest of the globe so that they aren't forcibly annexed to become part of the "big 3" (or whatever) or colonized by the major lesser powers like went on for centuries. I generally agree we shouldn't be the world's policeman and that the world should be a place where countries trade feely among themselves for necessary resources. Unfortunately history says that it doesn't work that well - Britain (among others) had colonialism to provide needs, Germany started a war to get what it needed, etc. You might say diplomacy has generally failed when one country needs or wants something another has.

Russia had the opportunity to leave Ukraine and other places alone, but acted out of force. Europe is not without resources such as oil, coal, etc; but chose to rely on an untrustworthy source instead. When has any government or really any corporation or other partly been altruistic and looked out for the average person? Doesn't happen. Some are better at it, but in the end those in control always look out for No 1 first. I've said all along that the most destructive thing to an economy is the cost of energy ... that is the lubricant that makes the world work. Yet it seems a lesson nobody is capable of understanding. OPEC banded together to artificially inflate prices and control supply, the commodities market is rampant with global speculation, and no one seems to care about the damage ... have you seen Europeans or the EU raise any flags about that?
China is a huge importer of food. They arent capable of feeding themselves. Generations of absolutely terrible agricultural policies have doomed this ability. Going back to Mao's 4 Pests. They have focused too much in industrializing and getting people off their farms and into cities where they have to rely on the government to take care of them instead of being somewhat independent.
 

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