War in Ukraine

[NorthDallas40]

It wasn’t written months ago.

Lol… you are such a breath of fresh air

 

[LouderVol]

None of that post is true. From top to bottom, total fabrication. This is why it is impossible to even try and discuss this topic with most of you.

Where are the lies?

So, the Ukrainians havent captured any T62s or AK74s?

All ex Russian military men are apparently kept at 100% healthy, fit, and up to date on current training, command structure, logistic systems, call signs, equipment, and were just waiting around and able to jump into the fight in a moments notice?

Russia has offered freedom to prisoners and increased the age acceptance.

Ukraine had more COMBAT experienced soldiers at the start of the conflict than they do now? That's laughable considering their mass mobilization during the war, and months and months of fighting, where as before they wrrent involved in any wars? My point was fair.

How much western equipment was given to Ukraine before the war? Especially the.artillery like HIMARs? That's all been since Russia fully invaded. Drones, javelins, armor, heck the captured equipment is more than the west has supplied.

Where are the lies? If they are so blatant it should be easy to point out.

 

[LouderVol]

So wait the whole gist of his argument is there are street names and statutes that are controlling Ukrainian policy and running the legislature?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

And I guess one person read it then!

Seems to be. I couldnt get to the bottom despite that I stopped reading about every specific monument and individual. Like they literally individually listed every monument and individual. I will admit I didnt make it to the end of the article just because of the sheer verbosity.

Didnt see anything that would rationally raise concern. Unless you have a BLM type mindset, then mostly peacefully protest away.

 

[NorthDallas40]

Seems to be. I couldnt get to the bottom despite that I stopped reading about every specific monument and individual. Like they literally individually listed every monument and individual. I will admit I didnt make it to the end of the article just because of the sheer verbosity.

Didnt see anything that would rationally raise concern. Unless you have a BLM type mindset, then mostly peacefully protest away.

Kinda disappointed in you I figured you were smarter than to read his links. We all know the never actually support what he’s claiming.

 

[LouderVol]

I saw a report of a Russian claiming the Daryia bombing was conducted by Russians as a threat to elites who are supporting Putin. Terrorism by Russians against Russians.

Yeah. I was giving them the benefit of the doubt and assuming Ukraine was responsible for all of them, just for the sake of their argument.

The car bombing would be relatively easy. The pipeline stuff would be impressive if Ukraine actually did it.
The nuclear plant thing just seems like straight up warfare unless there has been some other attack I missed.

 

[volgr]

The Ukrainians sovereignity. You have argued this entire time they should just give in and let Russia take what it wants.

What was Russia asking of them?

 

[LouderVol]

Kinda disappointed in you I figured you were smarter than to read his links. We all know the never actually support what he’s claiming.

I learned from the first Ukraine thread to read the articles. They are usually self defeating or contradictory of each other, and they get real pissy when you call them out on it. Granted it was just Ras and Pacer back then.

This particular article is case and point. The nazis have risen up and renamed some streets and erected some non offensive statues. For some reason that doesnt spark the same fear and concern in me that it does for these guys and Putin. Road names and statues is an absolute garbage reason to invade, and such an attitude deserves to be called out.

 

[LouderVol]

What was Russia asking of them?

Land, the people on it, their right to self determinate, which matters for Dontesk but doesnt matter for the rest of Ukraine.

 

[Velo Vol]

 

[tvolsfan]

How long before that's one of Donjo's talking points?

 

[volgr]

Yeah the pictures I have seen of your combat trained troops doesnt inspire much faith in their combat abilities.

The same combat troops that took Mariupol with some of Ukraine's best defending it? With roughly equal numbers of attackers vs defenders? Here you take a shred of truth, where you take troubles Russians may have had here or there or more likely you take errors made by these untrained Donbas milita groups and apply that to Russia as a whole. It is completely false.

With the age range going up to the 60s, where any combat training was decades back, and the low of 18 cant have the training, you arent digging out too many GI Ivan's. Even if they have the training it's not like riding a bike and you have to account for the physical side of things. Sure you will get some, but most arent going to be combat ready anytime soon.

You don't think Russia has plenty of 20 and 30 year olds with prior military training to all up? Again, you take small truths and blow them out of proportion or you buy western propaganda narrative which is doing it. Did Russia have issues with their call-up? Yes. Were people called up who shouldn't have been called up? Yes. Were some of those people elderly? Yes. Would this also happen in the US? Of course.

The equipment getting captured now doesnt speak very well either. T62s and older AK74s, not even the Ms.

Russia is using old equipment for a variety of purposes, but they have plenty of modern tanks. This is more ridiculous western propaganda.

Ukraine now has way more men with combat experience than they did at the start. They now have months of western equipment rolling in. Even stuff like the HIMARS you have claimed to be ineffective and/or destroyed, have been making an impact.

Ukraine has lowly trained men with combat experience. This is why they take huge losses in ridiculous offensives in Kherson. The best trained men Ukraine started the war with are mostly gone. What little they can train outside of Ukraine with NATO, isn't going to make much of a difference once they are deployed. HIMARS has been largely ineffective. Many have been destroyed with only a few remaining. Russia's 300k being deployed over the next few weeks will be much better trained and equipped vs whatever Ukaine has remaining.

Until I see another seesaw swing in the border I wont believe the Ukrainians have weekend themselves to the point of it being an issue. Sure after the winter we may see it after Russia has been able to train up its guys and figure out the logistics for a couple months. But nothing going to happen anytime soon.

You are already seeing it as their offensive has come to a grinding halt. They have overextended and exhausted themselves. They are in for a world of hurt over the coming months. If I am wrong, I will gladly admit. I have already admitted to being wrong on the Kharkiv/Izyum front. Gave Ukraine the appropriate credit for having good intel and giving Russia an embarrassing black eye. I just don't see how they build on or continue that success with Russia now deploying 300K (and it could be more like 400 to 450k before all is said and done). To come to your conclusion one has to believe western propaganda to be true (Russia has an ineffective military, is calling up mostly untrained grandpas, has out of date weapons, etc). We'll see over the coming months.

 

[hog88]

The same combat troops that took Mariupol with some of Ukraine's best defending it? With roughly equal numbers of attackers vs defenders? Here you take a shred of truth, where you take troubles Russians may have had here or there or more likely you take errors made by these untrained Donbas milita groups and apply that to Russia as a whole. It is completely false.



You don't think Russia has plenty of 20 and 30 year olds with prior military training to all up? Again, you take small truths and blow them out of proportion or you buy western propaganda narrative which is doing it. Did Russia have issues with their call-up? Yes. Were people called up who shouldn't have been called up? Yes. Were some of those people elderly? Yes. Would this also happen in the US? Of course.



Russia is using old equipment for a variety of purposes, but they have plenty of modern tanks. This is more ridiculous western propaganda.



Ukraine has lowly trained men with combat experience. This is why they take huge losses in ridiculous offensives in Kherson. The best trained men Ukraine started the war with are mostly gone. What little they can train outside of Ukraine with NATO, isn't going to make much of a difference once they are deployed. HIMARS has been largely ineffective. Many have been destroyed with only a few remaining. Russia's 300k being deployed over the next few weeks will be much better trained and equipped vs whatever Ukaine has remaining.



You are already seeing it as their offensive has come to a grinding halt. They have overextended and exhausted themselves. They are in for a world of hurt over the coming months. If I am wrong, I will gladly admit. I have already admitted to being wrong on the Kharkiv/Izyum front. Gave Ukraine the appropriate credit for having good intel and giving Russia an embarrassing black eye. I just don't see how they build on or continue that success with Russia now deploying 300K (and it could be more like 400 to 450k before all is said and done). To come to your conclusion one has to believe western propaganda to be true (Russia has an ineffective military, is calling up mostly untrained grandpas, has out of date weapons, etc). We'll see over the coming months.

It doesn't matter if they are in their 20s-30s, their training is crap and they are ill equipped. Most likely have piss poor moral and no desire to die for Putin's war.

 

[Velo Vol]

Per the tweet, that's what one of the representatives said.

She shouldn't have signed it then, either, but be that as it may. Really strange how that was done.

 

[NorthDallas40]

Screams openly of genocide. They’re saying the quiet part out loud again.

 

[NorthDallas40]

How long before that's one of Donjo's talking points?

We will see it dropped today once it’s disseminated out to the troll farms.

 

[volgr]

It doesn't matter if they are in their 20s-30s, their training is crap and they are ill equipped. Most likely have piss poor moral and no desire to die for Putin's war.

That is pure hopium. Nothing to back that up.

 

[NorthDallas40]

That is pure hopium. Nothing to back that up.

There is plenty of reporting and actual videos that show hogg is 100% correct.

And we also have the report of the recent conscripts that fragged their officers and surrendered en masse rather than fight. That’s some incredible morale right there.

 

[hog88]

That is pure hopium. Nothing to back that up.

It's absolutely a fact. Russia/USSR has never had a well trained military they have never won a peer v peer war without massive outside assistance and their officer corp is corrupt. Couple that with virtually no professional NCO corp and you have a military that relies on overwhelming numbers willing to play cannon fodder and not a trained professional military.

 

[hog88]

There is plenty of reporting and actual videos that show hogg is 100% correct.

And we also have the report of the recent conscripts that fragged their officers and surrendered en masse rather than fight. That’s some incredible morale right there.

Yes there is on almost any subject.......

 

[volgr]

Land, the people on it, their right to self determinate, which matters for Dontesk but doesnt matter for the rest of Ukraine.

The people on that land have self determined, which now isn't being respected by the West. You can even throw out the recent referendums if you like, there is no denying Crimea wanted to break from Ukraine. You are asking Russia to do something you aren't asking the West to do.

 

[NorthDallas40]

Yes there is on almost any subject.......

Lol

 

[volgr]

It's absolutely a fact. Russia/USSR has never had a well trained military they have never won a peer v peer war without massive outside assistance and their officer corp is corrupt. Couple that with virtually no professional NCO corp and you have a military that relies on overwhelming numbers willing to play cannon fodder and not a trained professional military.

Yet they took places like Mariupol from Ukraine's best trained fighters and did so without a numbers advantage. They took some of the toughest terrain, heavily entrenched and defended, in the Donbas without taking huge casualties. The truth on the ground seems to not agree with your hopium induced assessment.

 

[NorthDallas40]

Yet they took places like Mariupol from Ukraine's best trained fighters and did so without a numbers advantage. They took some of the toughest terrain, heavily entrenched and defended, in the Donbas without taking huge casualties. The truth on the ground seems to not agree with your hopium induced assessment.

They had a huge numbers advantage and the defenders had no resupply Larry. And even then they didn’t defeat them in combat they just waited them out since they had no resupply. You’re rewriting history again.

 

[hog88]

Yet they took places like Mariupol from Ukraine's best trained fighters and did so without a numbers advantage. They took some of the toughest terrain, heavily entrenched and defended, in the Donbas without taking huge casualties. The truth on the ground seems to not agree with your hopium induced assessment.

You consider Ukraine to be a military peer to Russia? Thanks for confirming my previous post.

 

[LouderVol]

The same combat troops that took Mariupol with some of Ukraine's best defending it? With roughly equal numbers of attackers vs defenders? Here you take a shred of truth, where you take troubles Russians may have had here or there or more likely you take errors made by these untrained Donbas milita groups and apply that to Russia as a whole. It is completely false.



You don't think Russia has plenty of 20 and 30 year olds with prior military training to all up? Again, you take small truths and blow them out of proportion or you buy western propaganda narrative which is doing it. Did Russia have issues with their call-up? Yes. Were people called up who shouldn't have been called up? Yes. Were some of those people elderly? Yes. Would this also happen in the US? Of course.



Russia is using old equipment for a variety of purposes, but they have plenty of modern tanks. This is more ridiculous western propaganda.



Ukraine has lowly trained men with combat experience. This is why they take huge losses in ridiculous offensives in Kherson. The best trained men Ukraine started the war with are mostly gone. What little they can train outside of Ukraine with NATO, isn't going to make much of a difference once they are deployed. HIMARS has been largely ineffective. Many have been destroyed with only a few remaining. Russia's 300k being deployed over the next few weeks will be much better trained and equipped vs whatever Ukaine has remaining.



You are already seeing it as their offensive has come to a grinding halt. They have overextended and exhausted themselves. They are in for a world of hurt over the coming months. If I am wrong, I will gladly admit. I have already admitted to being wrong on the Kharkiv/Izyum front. Gave Ukraine the appropriate credit for having good intel and giving Russia an embarrassing black eye. I just don't see how they build on or continue that success with Russia now deploying 300K (and it could be more like 400 to 450k before all is said and done). To come to your conclusion one has to believe western propaganda to be true (Russia has an ineffective military, is calling up mostly untrained grandpas, has out of date weapons, etc). We'll see over the coming months.

Just like you are assuming most of Ukraines western trained soldiers died at the start of the war I am assuming many of Russias elite that took Mauripol also died. If they are all still hiding, why call up all the reserves? The conscription speaks to the losses of effective Russian fighters.

You are making the same argument you accused me of, with a side of not reading what I actually said. I didnt say Russia only had T62s and AK74s left. I just pointed out there is older equipment in use, and its evidenced with what gets captured. I dont think if the Russians had huge stockpiles of the good stuff they would be arming the first 150k with it. Now that they have 300k new guys to arm, and they have a limited stockpile of the good stuff it's not a falsehood to think the 300k arent getting T90s and AK 12s. Which would limit their combat effectiveness.

How far was their offensive supposed to go? I must have missed the announcement they were headed to Moscow and got stopped short of the border. Seems like most of the halting was by choice. As far as their logistics go we havent seen a failure of it similar to what Russia faced in those regions before the counter attack. Which makes sense since they are taking back their own land, and not expanding into foreign territory like Russia did. And they certainly havent taken all of it back, limiting the scope of their "expanded" logistics.

The Ukrainians still have some effective artillery and HIMARs or other similar guided missile system. That's how they are able to strike these bridges, or the Crimean Airport, or those rail lines in Russia. The Ukrainians arent out of the fight by any stretch of the imagination.