War in Ukraine

#51,426
#51,426
Rasputin_Vol said:
Wow... So you would use weasel words like that with alleged allies also? Similar to how the agreement to not move NATO east was an agreement that wasn't in writing?

You are showing your colors today. I can't believe you would support weasel legalese.
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Its always the same with you: 2014 "coup" this, NATO "agreement" that.

Fact of the matter is there was no agreement on the eastward expansion of NATO. If the Russians wanted to stop that after the Cold War they should demanded a legal, documented treaty between the two parties. It is not our fault #1 that eastern European countries wanted in NATO for fears of resurgent Russia (rightfully so now) and #2 Russia didn't get this "agreement on paper". Even then, if there even was an agreement, history is written by the victors.
 
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#51,427
#51,427
Burhead said:
You still didn't address the fact the pro-Russian side also violated the cease fire agreements both Minsk I and II. If they had respected the cease fire Debaltseve would still have been Ukrainian in 2015.
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That is because they were constantly being attacked by the Kyiv regime. Also, why was the Kyiv regime in Debaltseve anyways when that was Donetsk territory?
 
#51,428
#51,428
Burhead said:
Its always the same with you: 2014 "coup" this, NATO "agreement" that.

Fact of the matter is there was no agreement on the eastward expansion of NATO. If the Russians wanted to stop that after the Cold War they should demanded a legal, documented treaty between the two parties. It is not our fault #1 that eastern European countries wanted in NATO for fears of resurgent Russia (rightfully so now) and #2 Russia didn't get this "agreement on paper". Even then, if there even was an agreement, history is written by the victors.
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Yeah... you are a weasel.
 
#51,430
#51,430
Rasputin_Vol said:
That is because they were constantly being attacked by the Kyiv regime. Also, why was the Kyiv regime in Debaltseve anyways when that was Donetsk territory?
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Because they held it at the time of the cease fire agreement and also due to the fact it is Ukrainian territory...
 
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#51,433
#51,433
Rasputin_Vol said:
Yeah, how did that war turn out for the good guys? Fighting those goatherders in sandals and what not?
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Same as Vietnam the actual battles were American victories. What we failed in was the nation building. I mean a dozen or so Green Berets on horses managed to overthrow the Taliban pretty quickly.
 
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#51,434
#51,434
Burhead said:
Because they held it at the time of the cease fire agreement and also due to the fact it is Ukrainian territory...
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Minsk I ceasefire was put in place in Sept 2014. So why were they still in Donetsk until January? Had they left/pulled out after Minsk I, this entire discussion is moot.
 
#51,435
#51,435
Burhead said:
Same as Vietnam the actual battles were American victories. What we failed in was the nation building. I mean a dozen or so Green Berets on horses managed to overthrow the Taliban pretty quickly.
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So it was a total failure. You can cope and rationalize that it was the big wigs in Washington all you want. The fact remains that it still goes down as a loss.
 
#51,436
#51,436
Burhead said:
Maybe the Kremlin's facts but not in reality.
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There a large number of people outside of Russia (and even here in America) that agree with what I'm saying. People that were actually involved at the time.

And LOL at you not even acknowledging that 2014 was a coup. You are ridiculous.
 
#51,437
#51,437
Rasputin_Vol said:
Minsk I ceasefire was put in place in Sept 2014. So why were they still in Donetsk until January? Had they left/pulled out after Minsk I, this entire discussion is moot.
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Minsk I never specified Ukraine to withdraw from the entirety of the Donetsk or Luhansk. Heck if we're going to talk about Minsk I, the DNR continued the battle of Donetsk Airport even after Minsk I was signed both sides probably violated the terms of both agreements.
 
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#51,439
#51,439
Rasputin_Vol said:
Where is their air defense? Where are the Warthogs? Where are the Abrams tanks? Where is the Million Man Army? Where is Starlink? Where are those switchblade drones? How is that Kerch Bridge attack working out?
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Two thirds of your idiot flex in this post is rocking Russian azz every day in Ukraine Moe. Every damn day. And you continue with this stupidity. It’s all in Ukraine helping them killing invading Russians just like it was designed to do.
 
#51,441
#51,441
Burhead said:
Had the Russians not gotten involved this entire discussion is moot.
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They had to get involved because the Kyiv regime would have had control of Crimea and their Black Sea port. Then the attacks on the Russian people in Donbas.

Had the US State Dept been more concerned about issues here at home rather than Ukraine, this conversation is moot.
 
#51,442
#51,442
Rasputin_Vol said:
They had to get involved because the Kyiv regime would have had control of Crimea and their Black Sea port. Then the attacks on the Russian people in Donbas.

Had the US State Dept been more concerned about issues here at home rather than Ukraine, this conversation is moot.
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The Russians had a lease on the port until 2042. Just admit it Putin miscalculated. Had he waited and actually engaged with the new government in Kyiv who knows where this would have ended. Instead he jumped the gun and went right to the military option and in the process forever cut the Slavic brotherhood between Russian and Ukrainian people.
 
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#51,443
#51,443
Rasputin_Vol said:
They had to get involved because the Kyiv regime would have had control of Crimea and their Black Sea port. Then the attacks on the Russian people in Donbas.

Had the US State Dept been more concerned about issues here at home rather than Ukraine, this conversation is moot.
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There it is. What this is all about. Remind me again what country Sevastopol is in? Yes, is. It’s still in Ukraine it’s just occupied by invaders and based on how everything is going that’s gonna get corrected.

You know Moe you’re all big on diplomacy until it’s Russia getting the diplomatic squeeze. All they had to do was seek to extend the long term lease again. But nope, Pootin chose war.
 
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#51,444
#51,444
Burhead said:
The Russians had a lease on the port until 2042. Just admit it Putin miscalculated. Had he waited and actually engaged with the new government in Kyiv who knows where this would have ended. Instead he jumped the gun and went right to the military option and in the process forever cut the Slavic brotherhood between Russian and Ukrainian people.
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Bingo
 
#51,445
#51,445
Burhead said:
The Russians had a lease on the port until 2042. Just admit it Putin miscalculated. Had he waited and actually engaged with the new government in Kyiv who knows where this would have ended. Instead he jumped the gun and went right to the military option and in the process forever cut the Slavic brotherhood between Russian and Ukrainian people.
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You really expect me to believe that the new Kyiv regime would honor that lease agreement? With NATO/the US supporting them? You aren't being serious.
 
#51,447
#51,447
Rasputin_Vol said:
You really expect me to believe that the new Kyiv regime would honor that lease agreement? With NATO/the US supporting them? You aren't being serious.
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Sure since every admin prior to 2014 did. Thus far the only ones not honoring their agreements are Russia. They completely cast aside any diplomacy and the existing binding agreements and invaded. No I don’t give a **** about Minsk , Minsk II, stupid ass referendums. They were all forced at Russian gun point. Russia is going to lose it all including Sevastopol and it’s all their own damn fault.
 
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#51,449
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