War in Ukraine

#52,054
#52,054
DonjoVol said:
He was warning people about the potential power of the military industrial complex. His words couldn't be more clear. We have Vietnam and other conflicts we've been involved since Ike was President as a prime example. We can definitely go into more details if you like. Your interpretation of his speech is by far the most stupid and absurd interpretation I've heard yet.
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Ike loved the MIC, his Pentomic Army concept was a huge boon to the MIC.
 
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#52,058
#52,058
hog88 said:
Ike loved the MIC, his Pentomic Army concept was a huge boon to the MIC.
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We definitely need a strong military. Mainly for the defense of this nation. I don't think anyone is denying it. The point Ike was making was in regards to the power and influence of the MIC.
 
#52,059
#52,059
DonjoVol said:
We definitely need a strong military. Mainly for the defense of this nation. I don't think anyone is denying it. The point Ike was making was in regards to the power and influence of the MIC.
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Ike was one of the people that granted the MIC much of it's power and influence.
 
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#52,060
#52,060
hog88 said:
Ike was one of the people that granted the MIC much of it's power and influence.
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No he wasn't. The president only has so much power. You should know this.

I would say much of the power of the MIC started while Truman was president. Not saying he was responsible but that's when much of it started.
 
#52,061
#52,061
DonjoVol said:
You're the only person interpreting Eisenhower's speech totally wrong. Even historians would laugh at your interpretation. You really should stick to engineering.

I think it's also safe to say when Eisenhower was speaking of an "alert and knowledgeable citizenry" he didn't have you in mind.

And not only are you still upset over those pizza delivery drivers and wheat exports but you're obviously also still upset that a retired Air Force Lt Colonel or Navy Commander got some promotion instead of you a decade or two ago.
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I gave you the exact paragraphs and highlighted the relevant parts. You stooges are the ones warping it into some idiotic boogeyman incorrectly. As usual.

And now you’re back to band camp and have even added new characters in your band camp soap opera! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! 🤡
 
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#52,062
#52,062
hog88 said:
Ike was one of the people that granted the MIC much of it's power and influence.
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Yes he was. He was there at its creation even. And he witnessed first hand the people that should be providing oversight instead being overly influenced by them. Thus his speech for them to do their damn jobs.
 
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#52,063
#52,063
DonjoVol said:
We definitely need a strong military. Mainly for the defense of this nation. I don't think anyone is denying it. The point Ike was making was in regards to the power and influence of the MIC.
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No you mindless stooge the point he DID make was the civilian government and military leadership was not to bow down to their control. He didn’t call the industry a big evil boogeyman like you are idiotically claiming. He rightly pointed out that it would be large and very powerful and to not be unduly swayed by their obviously powerful influence. Damn even when the speech is put right in front of you you’re too damn ignorant to understand it.
 
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#52,064
#52,064
DonjoVol said:
No he wasn't. The president only has so much power. You should know this.

I would say much of the power of the MIC started while Truman was president. Not saying he was responsible but that's when much of it started.
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You completely ignorant fool. Think back. What big job did Eisenhower have before he was president? It involved a uniform with five stars on it. Ike was a big participant in the MIC just like all senior military leadership is
 
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#52,065
#52,065
hog88 said:
Ike was one of the people that granted the MIC much of its power and influence.
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There was also another major warning in his speech. The government taking over and driving the civilian research and development and the money pit that was going to be. I’d guess that was rooted in the massive monies spent on the Manhattan Project. And then in the term following Ike’s we got the space race from Kennedy. Both highly useful and needed research efforts and both massive spending efforts bending civilian scientific professionals to the government agenda and paid for with government funding.

In both cases he called neither a boogeyman. He pointed out they are in fact needed but don’t become beholding to them.
 
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#52,066
#52,066
DonjoVol said:
No he wasn't. The president only has so much power. You should know this.

I would say much of the power of the MIC started while Truman was president. Not saying he was responsible but that's when much of it started.
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Well we all know of your limited grasp of history. Read up on Ike and his Pentomic Army, he made a lot of people instant millionaires from failed weapons systems. Yes Truman and his predecessor were gifts to the MIC also but we were fighting wars at the time, Ike's spending on gee whiz weaponry was during peacetime.
 
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#52,067
#52,067
Rasputin_Vol said:
I'm not sure what you mean in this last sentence.


It isn't that hard. You need to be trustworthy and willing to give up a little to get something from the other side. The USS Missouri unconditional surrender has spoiled us into thinking that we can continue on with one sided negotiating and getting things on our terms all of the time. If we actually had real honest diplomats that aimed for mutually beneficial deals, then this country would be much better off.
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Again. Now apply this to Russia's diplomacy with Ukraine. They were all take take take, to such a point they straight up invaded when they didnt get the land diplomatically. Their willingness to invade says pretty emphatically they werent willing to give during diplomacy.
 
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#52,068
#52,068
DonjoVol said:
We're not talking about Russia here. We are talking about the United State's MIC which you and others are quick to defend.

And now I realize why some of you trolls are quick to defend billions spent to this proxy war.
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Lol. Our MIC sucks. Never defended them.
Pointing out that's Russia's is in the same boat. Which you are quick to deflect away from.

This is a thread about Russia. Talking about Russia is the point. You just want to deflect to America because you dont have a good argument otherwise
 
#52,070
#52,070
hog88 said:
Well we all know of your limited grasp of history. Read up on Ike and his Pentomic Army, he made a lot of people instant millionaires from failed weapons systems. Yes Truman and his predecessor were gifts to the MIC also but we were fighting wars at the time, Ike's spending on gee whiz weaponry was during peacetime.
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Oh I can guarantee you my grasp of history is much better than yours. Not only on politics but religion and sports as well. That's not something you want to start questioning me on. I'll embarrass you like I've done plenty on this forum.
 
#52,071
#52,071
DonjoVol said:
So why did your pal Zelensky feel the need to ban supposed pro Russian political parties in Ukraine? That's the kind of move a communist or fascist dictator would pull and you and others supported that move. I guess you trolls do love totalitarian regimes after all.
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Uh. They are at war with Russia. Anybody running pro Russian policies would be considered a traitor in any country in that circumstance. Seriously, it would be like letting their Russia POWs keep their weapons? What type of fascist government disarms people right?

Now if Zelensky keeps them banned once the war is over then yeah you have an argument.

And oh yeah, what was one of the first reasons Putin invaded Ukraine for? Wasnt it to ban parties too? I mean what type of fascist does that? Invades someone else's country to ban political parties in that country. At that point that level of fascism isnt just an internal issue for that one country to deal with. Now the rest of the world is under threat from the level of fascist that is willing to invade another country just to ban a political party. I mean dear God, could you imagine the terror if more roads ended up with offensives names? BLM just wouldnt survive.
 
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#52,072
#52,072
DonjoVol said:
Oh I can guarantee you my grasp of history is much better than yours.
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Please, you tried to justify independence based on something that didnt even last 2 months.

While at the same time arguing that Ukraine has only existed for 30 years, timeline is wrong but moving past that, and so Ukraine shouldnt be considered sovereign.
 
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#52,073
#52,073
Politicians love the Military Industrial Complex. Lines their pockets, lines their friends pockets and they get to sabre rattle. The war in Ukraine is a joke. Should just have let Vlad do Vlad. But, the US loves a little bit of regime change, meddling in other countries affairs and printing out money to give to crooks while telling us all how important this is war is and that we must defend Ukraine til the bitter end. Ok. Wonder why Dems are so quick to “support” Ukraine because they can’t let a crisis go to waste.
 
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