War in Ukraine

[NorthDallas40]

Who's trying to clean it up, the Ukrainian gov? If that's who you're referring to, that's laughable. I've stayed away from this thread because of the hypocrisy of it all, but it's very clear that there really is no difference at all between the Russian and Ukrainian regimes. It's very reasonable to support the Ukrainian people and for that matter the Russian people. Supporting either of these corrupt regimes is completely ludricrous.

Yes they are trying. We can disagree if you want fine by me. But they started in a deep hole to begin with being essentially as corrupt as Russia in 1991 when they were formed. And we are putting pressure on them to go faster. But like I said in another post I really don’t care about the government body itself it’s the right of self governance.

Here is a link that points to the ranked corruption of governments. They’re better than Russia, not as good as us, and frankly we’re not where we should be in our peer group either

Most Corrupt Countries 2022

 

[tnmarktx]

not as good as us

That invalidates your source. Our gov. is toward the top of the list as far as corruption goes. Them being aligned with us would make them far more corrupt than the Russian gov. if we're ranking corruption. My point is, to support either of these regimes. you are supporting the oppression of the Ukrainian and Russian people.

 

[NorthDallas40]

That invalidates your source. Our gov. is toward the top of the list as far as corruption goes. Them being aligned with us would make them far more corrupt than the Russian gov. if we're ranking corruption. My point is, to support either of these regimes. you are supporting the oppression of the Ukrainian and Russian people.

Wait what? No it’s not. Not in our peer group. But Russia isn’t in our peer group. And LOLLOLLOL at Russia being less corrupt than the US . Ukraine and Russia are definitely in the same group. In another link I was reading the most corrupt government in Europe is Russia. The next is Ukraine. It was a wiki page I think called Corruption in Ukraine. But it also listed all the legislation they’re putting in place to attempt and curb it. Look before the late 2000’s there wasn’t even an attempt in Ukraine ti clean themselves up.

And WTF on the last statement. The only way to send any kind of assistance is via the Ukrainian government. But we need to do a much better job of oversight that’s on us.

 

[tnmarktx]

Wait what? No it’s not. Not in our peer group. But Russia isn’t in our peer group. And LOLLOLLOL at Russia being less corrupt than the US . Ukraine and Russia are definitely in the same group. In another link I was reading the most corrupt government in Europe is Russia. The next is Ukraine. It was a wiki page I think called Corruption in Ukraine. But it also listed all the legislation they’re putting in place to attempt and curb it. Look before the late 2000’s there wasn’t even an attempt in Ukraine ti clean themselves up.

And WTF on the last statement. The only way to send any kind of assistance is via the Ukrainian government. But we need to do a much better job of oversight that’s on us.

We clearly support the oppression of the Chinese people by it's gov. We support the prosecution of opposing political ideology. Our national police force and intelligence agency pushes political views and the suppression of free speech. There's a plethora of documented proof of this. Our elections are a complete sham. The list goes on and on. Please explain how our gov. is not just as corrupt as Russia's, if not more.

 

[DonjoVol]

Too much msm…

The MSM are basically the equivalent to religious sermons for democrats at this point.

 

[NorthDallas40]

We clearly support the oppression of the Chinese people by it's gov. We support the prosecution of opposing political ideology. Our national police force and intelligence agency pushes political views and the suppression of free speech. There's a plethora of documented proof of this. Our elections are a complete sham. The list goes on and on. Please explain how our gov. is not just as corrupt as Russia's, if not more.

Doesn’t sound like I need to you’ve made up your mind. If Russia is your standard for a non corrupt government go nuts man!

 

[tnmarktx]

Doesn’t sound like I need to you’ve made up your mind. If Russia is your standard for a non corrupt government go nuts man!

If your's is Ukraine, continue the hypocrisy.

 

[NorthDallas40]

If your's is Ukraine, continue the hypocrisy.

Point to where I’ve raised them up as a standard and you’d have a point. Hint: I haven’t thus you don’t.

But you didn’t back down from Russia being less corrupt than we are. You’ve referenced all kinds of information publicly available outlining our issues. Available in the same country you’re condemning BTW. Just yesterday your gold standard convicted a citizen to 8 year’s imprisonment for condemning the military publicly. I gotta say I’m enjoying this comparison quite a bit!

 

[MontyPython]

"Everything going to plan."

- Dead Man Walking

Russia's oil exports plunge on EU price cap and latest round of sanctions

 

[NorthDallas40]

"Everything going to plan."

- Dead Man Walking

Russia's oil exports plunge on EU price cap and latest round of sanctions

View attachment 522539

Eh I’d guess it’s more due to the overall price dropping in the whole market. Already reports of the Asian buyers putting contracts in place above the cap price which would be the expected play by Russia

Russia Is Selling Crude Oil To Asia Above The $60 Price Cap | OilPrice.com

 

[tnmarktx]

Point to where I’ve raised them up as a standard and you’d have a point. Hint: I haven’t thus you don’t.

But you didn’t back down from Russia being less corrupt than we are. You’ve referenced all kinds of information publicly available outlining our issues. Available in the same country you’re condemning BTW. Just yesterday your gold standard convicted a citizen to 8 year’s imprisonment for condemning the military publicly. I gotta say I’m enjoying this comparison quite a bit!

Get back to me when the January 6th smoke clears and we can compare sentencing.

 

[NorthDallas40]

Get back to me when the January 6th smoke clears and we can compare sentencing.

I’m not a fan of the whole Jan 6 over prosecution and I’ve stated as much. However if those idiots hadn’t acted like idiots then they wouldn’t have subjected themselves to our Justice system. And we’re still expressing dissent of government prosecutions in a public forum with no fear of government repercussions. Like I said I’m really enjoying this comparison.

 

[tnmarktx]

I’m not a fan of the whole Jan 6 over prosecution and I’ve stated as much. However if those idiots hadn’t acted like idiots then they wouldn’t have subjected themselves to our Justice system. And we’re still expressing dissent of government prosecutions in a public forum with no fear of government repercussions. Like I said I’m really enjoying this comparison.

Show me like comparison of sentencing for riots that occurred throughout the country prior to Jan 6 and you'll have a case. If you think what you stated is not an apples to apples comparison of corruption, that explains your blind love of the Ukrainian gov.

 

[NorthDallas40]

Show me like comparison of sentencing for riots that occurred throughout the country prior to Jan 6 and you'll have a case. If you think what you stated is not an apples to apples comparison of corruption, that explains your blind love of the Ukrainian gov.

Lol! I literally agreed that the government is over prosecuting people for Jan 6, I’ve also stated that I couldn’t care less about the Ukrainian government itself rather it’s about the citizens right of self determination, and I absolutely laughed out loud at an “apples to apples” comparison drawn for 8 years sentence for merely making public comments being equal to anything on Jan 6. So apparently my love of the Ukrainian government is pretty damn weak

And US corruption being worse than Russian corruption is an odd and hilarious hill to die on but I’m expecting you’ll get a handful of support replies soon from some specific posters

 

[tnmarktx]

Lol! I literally agreed that the government is over prosecuting people for Jan 6, I’ve also stated that I couldn’t care less about the Ukrainian government itself rather it’s about the citizens right of self determination, and I absolutely laughed out loud at an “apples to apples” comparison drawn for 8 years sentence for merely making public comments being equal to anything on Jan 6. So apparently my love of the Ukrainian government is pretty damn weak

The only thing keeping our gov. from not jailing people daily for dissent is the 2nd amendment and the answer to the question from the military whether or not they would kill our citizens if commanded to.

 

[NorthDallas40]

The only thing keeping our gov. from not jailing people daily for dissent is the 2nd amendment and the answer to the question from the military whether or not they would kill our citizens if commanded to.

Actually there is a whole lot more preventing it than that however the 2nd amendment guarantees the means to fight back if needed. And I’m a believer in the Bill of Rights as written and literally interpreted

The military swears no oath to the government. Only the constitution

 

[tnmarktx]

Actually there is a whole lot more preventing it than that however the 2nd amendment guarantees the means to fight back if needed. And I’m a believer in the Bill of Rights as written and literally interpreted

The military swears no oath to the government. Only the constitution

Then you should oppose everything our gov does in its current form.

 

[NorthDallas40]

Then you should oppose everything our gov does in its current form.

No not at all. That solves nothing. You’re talking like an anarchist. Hey if that’s your gig go nuts.

We’ve got our problems but we’re still the best thing going that I’ve seen.

 

[tnmarktx]

No not at all. That solves nothing. You’re talking like an anarchist. Hey if that’s your gig go nuts.

We’ve got our problems but we’re still the best thing going that I’ve seen.

You’d be far better served by following the revelations from the Twitter files releases than worrying about war in Ukraine. You need to realize just how bad it’s gotten here.

 

[AM64]

Rhetorical comment but leaders are saying it.
Many on here are denying that Ukraine is corrupt. Any by any measure, severely corrupt.

https://www.cato.org/commentary/whitewashing-ukraines-corruption

Whenever there is regime change - like the death of communism in a country, there will be corrupt people trying to make money out of chaos; and Eastern Europe has always seemed to be a home for this kind of thing. Once there, it's not easy to eradicate. Look back at our own robber barons and even further back at the corruption during and following the civil war. We tend to revolt at that kind of thing faster than a lot of the rest of the world, but even we don't do well at ending corruption - look at congress and all their shady dealings.

 

[Orangeburst]

Whenever there is regime change - like the death of communism in a country, there will be corrupt people trying to make money out of chaos; and Eastern Europe has always seemed to be a home for this kind of thing. Once there, it's not easy to eradicate. Look back at our own robber barons and even further back at the corruption during and following the civil war. We tend to revolt at that kind of thing faster than a lot of the rest of the world, but even we don't do well at ending corruption - look at congress and all their shady dealings.

Fine and well..I didnt want to comment on the US..My personal feeling..the more money the more corruption.
I was just commenting on people that deny that the Ukrainian government is corrupt and the whitewashing of it.

 

[NorthDallas40]

You’d be far better served by following the revelations from the Twitter files releases than worrying about war in Ukraine. You need to realize just how bad it’s gotten here.

Ok sure… and I can multitask

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

 

[NorthDallas40]

Whenever there is regime change - like the death of communism in a country, there will be corrupt people trying to make money out of chaos; and Eastern Europe has always seemed to be a home for this kind of thing. Once there, it's not easy to eradicate. Look back at our own robber barons and even further back at the corruption during and following the civil war. We tend to revolt at that kind of thing faster than a lot of the rest of the world, but even we don't do well at ending corruption - look at congress and all their shady dealings.

You gotta remember. Ukraine’s starting point was literally Russia. And they weren’t pressed to clean their act up till the late 2000’s. There is a lot of corruption still present there for sure. I referenced a wiki page earlier that illustrated their legislative attempts to clean their act up and I dropped it below. They’ve indeed got a long way to go. But that’s no reason to just let Russia steam roll them. Plus like it or not we agreed to provide aid up to but not including boots on the ground. And Russia’s expansionist behavior has to be stopped before it’s normalized as acceptable behavior.

Corruption in Ukraine - Wikipedia

 

[AM64]

You gotta remember. Ukraine’s starting point was literally Russia. And they weren’t pressed to clean their act up till the late 2000’s. There is a lot of corruption still present there for sure. I referenced a wiki page earlier that illustrated their legislative attempts to clean their act up and I dropped it below. They’ve indeed got a long way to go. But that’s no reason to just let Russia steam roll them. And Russia’s expansionist behavior has to be stopped before it’s normalized as acceptable behavior.

Corruption in Ukraine - Wikipedia

Agree. When you look at the list of corrupt countries, it seems Africa and the ex-Soviet countries are well represented in the most corrupt status. You can almost break the worst of the offenders into some distinct categories. Africa and the Middle East because of tribal histories. Ex-communist states because communism is nothing but corruption. S America and environs because of Spanish colonialism. In each case there's some well established corruption backed by elements of power (sometimes legitimate - sometimes an offshoot of powerful state agencies like the KGB - often nothing more than brutality). Africa, the ME, and S America have decades of corruption and have shown little will to break it - centuries of tradition with no real attempt at progress.