War in Ukraine

[NorthDallas40]

Sounds like things are getting dicey in Bakhmut

And still no one knows why the idiot Russians even want it. There is no strategic importance to it other than it’s the next town on the road.

 

[USF grad in TN]

And still no one knows why the idiot Russians even want it. There is no strategic importance to it other than it’s the next town on the road.

I think I read that the Wagner group is involved there, with their head guy trying to prove he's better than the Russian MOD, gaining ground while they're losing ground, and should have major political influence.

 

[USF grad in TN]

Well this seems dumb. Why not Poland? Russia will bomb the factory in Ukraine. They wouldn't touch a NATO country.

It seems like there's a deal with NATO that weapons we send have to be used in Ukraine but weapons they make can hit military targets in Russia.

 

[rekinhavoc]

'There are maniacs who enjoy killing,' Russian defector says of his former unit accused of war crimes in Bucha | CNN

 

[Velo Vol]

Happy holidays stooges.

 

[Rocky_Top_Vol13]

 

[LouderVol]

When the leader of Chechnya supports Russia…I’m assuming most Chechen’s do too…

Nazi feed is different?

So most Americans think like Biden?

That's some hugely broad brush you are painting with. Especially if you have seen how Kadyrov maintains power, or even got his power.

 

[Velo Vol]

 

[LouderVol]

Where’s the fear mongoring?

Ukraine was still one before the cookies were passed…feeding Nazis to represent with a paid minority..

Putin ain’t begging for help at the moment is he?

There were more Nazis in power under Yanukoych than there are today. IIRC it was 6 in the Rada under Y, and it's now 2 in the Rada under P. If you cared about the truth you would have read the links I provided on this, or at the very least would do your own research.

Just like if you cared about the truth you would look up how Yanukoych himself signed the measure that would have led to his ouster, if he stuck around. He fled before the "coup" happened, and the Rada used the agreement Yanukoych signed to hold an early election. But because he fled he had to be impeached as he was very clearly and literally in Russia's pocket at that time. Again I provided a link of this, you even quoted that post, but just cropped out the link in your response.

It's amazing how continuously selective you are in what you will even acknowledge.

 

[LouderVol]

Who I named were the invaders…

100 billion+…plus 8 yrs arming, training then bombing civilians…he’s still on the hunt.

So your argument is that the foreign nation that isnt there physically, the US, is the invader, but the foreign nation that is there physically, Russia, is not the invader.

I dont think you grasp logic, at all, with that type of argument.

Even if you want to argue that American interests are an invasion, the Russian interests were already there before us. Putin just didnt want to share Ukraine and didnt want Ukraine's people to decide their own fate.

 

[LouderVol]

This is actually a good point and very revealing. The US uses coups and color revolutions, while the Russians use local elections. WOW...

Local elections held under gun point after killing or running off the opposition isnt "a good point".

There is no way you would accept a referendum done by the US in that manner. No way in hades. No one would. But you guys do for Russia because you are totally neutral and unbiased when it comes to Russia.

 

[LouderVol]

This is probably the most important and most honest post in this thread. It was never about Ukrainian sovereignty. It was about using the Ukrainians as a battering ram. They are going to fight to the last Ukrainian and @AM64 just comes out and openly says it.

Yeah except we didnt get Germany to invade Russia. Nor did we get Russia to invade Ukraine.

Somehow we are able to use diplomacy to make the best of a bad situation. Yes I know you only want a victim that cant fight back, anything else triggers you. But for the rest of humanity we get disgusted watching a bully beat up a defenseless individual, and tend to take steps to redress the matter if we can.

It all comes back to, if Russia doesnt invade, the US doesnt get involved.

 

[Pacer92]

So most Americans think like Biden?

That's some hugely broad brush you are painting with. Especially if you have seen how Kadyrov maintains power, or even got his power.

I don’t think it matters who’s in office…most Americans will go along with the narrative..

How many countries have we invaded?

 

[evillawyer]

That meat grinder is becoming a well-oiled machine.

 

[Pacer92]

There were more Nazis in power under Yanukoych than there are today. IIRC it was 6 in the Rada under Y, and it's now 2 in the Rada under P. If you cared about the truth you would have read the links I provided on this, or at the very least would do your own research.

Just like if you cared about the truth you would look up how Yanukoych himself signed the measure that would have led to his ouster, if he stuck around. He fled before the "coup" happened, and the Rada used the agreement Yanukoych signed to hold an early election. But because he fled he had to be impeached as he was very clearly and literally in Russia's pocket at that time. Again I provided a link of this, you even quoted that post, but just cropped out the link in your response.

It's amazing how continuously selective you are in what you will even acknowledge.

The first Parliament and Cabinet after the coup under Yats was filled with them. The PR took a hit and they have been trying to distance that look ever since.

I’ve admitted Yanukovych was a puppet and yes he fled because of the coup. I’m not even sure what point you’re even trying to make here..

 

[hog88]

I don’t think it matters who’s in office…most Americans will go along with the narrative..

How many countries have we invaded?

2 since WWII

Less than Russia

 

[NorthDallas40]

The first Parliament and Cabinet after the coup under Yats was filled with them. The PR took a hit and they have been trying to distance that look ever since.

I’ve admitted Yanukovych was a puppet and yes he fled because of the coup. I’m not even sure what point you’re even trying to make here..

You’re almost there Homer. He was a puppet and because of his puppet acts the Ukraine parliament threw him out on his puppet ass as is within their constitutional powers to do.

 

[LouderVol]

It was a coup. Let me spell that out in all caps for you then maybe you'll understand it a little better. COUP.

You want me to post that Nuland phone call for you again?

Post them. And be sure to provide a timeline with them.

Eff it, here I will post it, because I am so effing tired of you making allusions to things relying on no one checking themselves.

Ukraine crisis: Transcript of leaked Nuland-Pyatt call

Nuland worked with the state department. It's her job to work with foreign nations. She was talking with the American ambassador to Ukraine. They were discussing all of the candidates in the upcoming ELECTION and how that would change their relationship with the power structure in Ukraine. There is nothing nefarious in that at all.

I guarentee you Putin discusses with his American ambassador every four years when we have elections about who his preference is. Nothing nefarious about it. It's their freaking jobs. And oh yeah in that freaking transcript you so love they discuss this very thing. That Russia is also mobilizing its support for various candidates as well.

Even in the work place, you work with another company. Your contact over there left, and the company hasnt filled his job yet. You and your sales agent discussing the options doesnt prove that you forced out the last contact. It's just you doing your job, being informed about the possibilities and how those possibilities may impact future working relations.

And the best part, none of the three names they discussed ended up as president. So the whole dang conversation is proof that we had opinions but those opinions didnt become reality. Which proves pretty easily that we dont control anything.

 

[Pacer92]

So your argument is that the foreign nation that isnt there physically, the US, is the invader, but the foreign nation that is there physically, Russia, is not the invader.

I dont think you grasp logic, at all, with that type of argument.

Even if you want to argue that American interests are an invasion, the Russian interests were already there before us. Putin just didnt want to share Ukraine and didnt want Ukraine's people to decide their own fate.

Again, a coup is an invasion…NATO expansion is an invasion…at least through Russian eyes and that’s all that really matters.

We are there…in the shadows, but there. Everything else is out in the open…training, weapons/equipment. Same way Vietnam started.

 

[NorthDallas40]

Again, a coup is an invasion…NATO expansion is an invasion…at least through Russian eyes and that’s all that really matters.

We are there…in the shadows, but there. Everything else is out in the open…training, weapons/equipment. Same way Vietnam started.

 

[Pacer92]

2 since WWII

Less than Russia

North Korea, Vietnam, Iraq(2), Afghanistan, Grenada…could probably throw in Laos and Cambodia.

But I’ll just say 5.

 

[LouderVol]

You must have some interesting definitions of “democratically” and “elected.”

What's funny is they accept these Russian referendums and internal votes. But question our own.

As I keep saying. Two completely different standards.

 

[hog88]

North Korea, Vietnam, Iraq(2), Afghanistan, Grenada…could probably throw in Laos and Cambodia.

But I’ll just say 5.

We didn't invade NK, Vietnam, Laos or Cambodia. Yes I did forget about Grenada and Panama though. So 4 since WWII, what's Russia/USSR count up to now? 10 give or take?

 

[LouderVol]

Yeah and by the end, the vast majority were Nazi thugs bussed in from all over Ukraine to create chaos and victims for a westernized “promotion”.

You brought up Zelensky, actually. I didn’t blame him for stuff prior to being elected. He’s responsible for neglecting avenues to peace, allowing a culture of Nazi ideology to prosper and grow, and for attacking religion. He’s nothing more than a western stooge..

But, again, your logic is that only certain Ukrainians have the right to fight back against an oppressive regime….only the pro-west. That’s twisted and contradictory..

What effing Nazis?
List of political parties in Ukraine - Wikipedia
Svoboda (political party) - Wikipedia

I was wrong earlier. Svodoba, the Nazis, have 1 rada member. I thought they had 2.

Back in 2012, under Yanukoyvch they had 37. In the 2014 special elections they dropped to 6, and are now at 1.

There are fewer Nazis in power under Zelensky than there were under Yanokych.

Just another of your hugely bad takes you refuse to accept even with evidence presented. If you hold to form you will just skip over this.

 

[LouderVol]

Yanukovych was the democratically elected president. He was overthrown in an actual coup. The response that Velo gave in the form of the same junk tweets that are always posted and had nothing to do with the video I posted. If you want to watch the whole video then discuss like adults please let me know.

There have been two other presidents elected after Yanukovych. Seems like democracy is still going strong.