War in Ukraine

[NorthDallas40]

Hell, I fully admit that our officer corp is largely incompetent and if not for our NCOs we wouldn't be much different than the Russians.

The key attribute of any professional competent army is a well trained competent professional NCO corp to actually execute the battle plan as designed and dynamically adapt on the fly when it goes awry. We see it over and over in history

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

We sell to the rest of Europe and let them "give" Ukraine whatever they feel the need to give. This is on their doorstep, not ours.

How can Europe pay for this?

Its like you guys are programmed to engage in grift and debt slavery. Why should the people of Europe be saddled with these debt burdens?

Isn't it cheaper to simply engage in diplomacy? How about if Europe/NATO kept their promise of not expanding east or just broken up NATO after 1991 and come together with a European security agreement? Isn't that cheaper than arms building?

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

You don't read or comprehend very well do you?

What am I missing?

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

We sell to the rest of Europe and let them "give" Ukraine whatever they feel the need to give. This is on their doorstep, not ours.

You act as though the people of Europe had any say in getting involved in this conflict. This was all orchestrated by their political class, not the man on the street. Yet, the man on the street in Europe is the one being asked to make the sacrifices in terms of higher energy costs, higher food costs, skyrocketing govt debt burdens and deindustrialization.

 

[hog88]

This is just factually untrue. In what universe do you live in?

It's 100% true. Our goal in the 1st Iraq war was to drive Sadam out of Kuwait and secure it's independence, 100% achieved. Second Iraq war our goal was to remove Sadam and we did, 100% achieved. In Afghanistan our goal was to remove the Taliban and destroy AQ, we got about 90% of that accomplished within a year.

If not for incompetence in our senior military officers and the administration we would have had 100% victory in Afghanistan by end of summer 2002.

 

[hog88]

How can Europe pay for this?

Its like you guys are programmed to engage in grift and debt slavery. Why should the people of Europe be saddled with these debt burdens?

Isn't it cheaper to simply engage in diplomacy? How about if Europe/NATO kept their promise of not expanding east or just broken up NATO after 1991 and come together with a European security agreement? Isn't that cheaper than arms building?

If Russian occupation and enslavement of Ukraine is acceptable to Europe they don't have to supply Ukraine with hardware. What's so ****ing hard for you to understand? I didn't say we should force Europe to buy and supply Ukraine with military hardware.

 

[hog88]

What am I missing?

Pretty much everything.

 

[hog88]

You act as though the people of Europe had any say in getting involved in this conflict. This was all orchestrated by their political class, not the man on the street. Yet, the man on the street in Europe is the one being asked to make the sacrifices in terms of higher energy costs, higher food costs, skyrocketing govt debt burdens and deindustrialization.

And? Isn't the same true for the Russian people?

 

[NorthDallas40]

It's 100% true. Our goal in the 1st Iraq war was to drive Sadam out of Kuwait and secure it's independence, 100% achieved. Second Iraq war our goal was to remove Sadam and we did, 100% achieved. In Afghanistan our goal was to remove the Taliban and destroy AQ, we got about 90% of that accomplished within a year.

If not for incompetence in our senior military officers and the administration we would have had 100% victory in Afghanistan by end of summer 2002.

Now let’s compare to their heroes. Capture and hold the four regions they’ve annexed. Failed, all four are still in doubt and they continue to lose ground they initially gained. Capture Kyiv likely with the goal of removing the government. Utterly failed the attack was repulsed and the government is stronger and more resilient today than when they started this. Execute this invas… er “special military operation” quickly and end it quickly. Totally and utterly failed we are on day 300 of their 3 day war with no end in sight and see no immediate means for Russia to change their current losing momentum.

The Russian military is incompetent from top to bottom based on their own “accomplishments”

 

[hog88]

Now let’s compare to their heroes. Capture and hold the four regions they’ve annexed. Failed, all four are still in doubt and they continue to lose ground they initially gained. Capture Kyiv likely with the goal of removing the government. Utterly failed the attack was repulsed and the government is stronger and more resilient today than when they started this. Execute this invas… er “special military operation” quickly and end it quickly. Totally and utterly failed we are on day 300 of their 3 day war with no end in sight and see no immediate means for Russia to change their current losing momentum.

The Russian military is incompetent from top to bottom based on their own “accomplishments”

These guys are letting their Putin fanboism show through. It's perfectly fine to say "hey I support Russia and what they are doing in Ukraine but admit they have royally screwed it up".

I think they have some real daddy issues.

 

[NorthDallas40]

These guys are letting their Putin fanboism show through. It's perfectly fine to say "hey I support Russia and what they are doing in Ukraine but admit they have royally screwed it up".

I think they have some real daddy issues.

I guess. I mean supporting the removal of the made up gay western death cult Nazis by suiciding your own country in trying to remove a fantasy doesn’t really seem all that smart to me.

 

[LouderVol]

Yeah I've noticed we have quite a few Armchair Privates in this group.

The fact remains we are still wasting our time and money on Ukraine when we have worse problems at home. We should be cleaning up our own mess before we go and try to fix the rest of the world.

And you guys are the reincarnation of Zhukov right?

Going to explain how that attack at the start of the war was a feint again?

Or finally going to explain how Bhakmut is the critical lynchpin in this war?

 

[WoodsmanVol]

It's 100% true. Our goal in the 1st Iraq war was to drive Sadam out of Kuwait and secure it's independence, 100% achieved. Second Iraq war our goal was to remove Sadam and we did, 100% achieved. In Afghanistan our goal was to remove the Taliban and destroy AQ, we got about 90% of that accomplished within a year.
If not for incompetence in our senior military officers and the administration we would have had 100% victory in Afghanistan by end of summer 2002.

The problem with America is three things. The underpinning of which is the USA being a predatory nation. Not by any means or imagination that we are alone, or even the inventors of such predation. Just the same, our missions are:

1. We're war-lovers, violence-seekers. It's evident through our entertainment media. The old cowboys TV shows and movies. The children's cartoons, such as Tom & Jerry, Bugs Bunny, Mighty Mouse. The movies from even before Psycho, gangster movies, Blaxation series, and today's ever-increasing gore films. War and just plain violence is our nation's passion.

2. Trumped-up delusions of being the good guys saving others from distress, when in reality we just want to position ourselves to economically, and resource exploit them.

3 Sticking our noses in other people's business, making a mess of their country and culture, then leaving after we have sucked them dry. However, that's backfiring now as we also created conditions that force people to migrate in numbers not seen since the Russians expelled twelve million Germans from Central Europe, ending Hitler's colonization plans for the region.



Now watch the self-righteous responses.

 

[Hunerwadel]

The recliner of the right place for any American to be analyzing this fiasco. And it doesn’t take a military career background to look at the Russian military and see they’re a bunch of incompetent clowns who were drastically over rated.

Best example is the Russian Army fleeing Kyiv. And that's while they were fresh and not battle fatigued.

 

[Hunerwadel]

And? Isn't the same true for the Russian people?

Ouch! A right cross to the chin.

 

[Velo Vol]

These guys are letting their Putin fanboism show through. It's perfectly fine to say "hey I support Russia and what they are doing in Ukraine but admit they have royally screwed it up".

There's more criticism of the Russian government on Russian state TV than there is from the stooges.

 

[LouderVol]

Th Russians didn't go in with the original intent of shock and awe and bombing the Ukrainians to the stone age. You do realize that, right? They originally went in hoping to get Kyiv/3elensky to capitulate quickly. That didn't work. Then when the UK and US shot down the deal that they were going to have in late March, they refocused. After the Kerch Bridge and Nordstream bombings, the Russians finally turned up the heat to where the American would have to an extent.

The Russians are now, sadly, put in a position where the Kyiv regime and the US are running waves of men into the meat grinder and having them take these ridiculous stands when they should be surrendering or retreating.

So my understanding is that Ukraine holds Bakhmut, still, and it's the Russians constantly attacking and losing men. Granted Ukraine is taking losses to. but pretty much always the one that holds their ground typically loses less than the attacker they drive back. So I would expect any Ukrainian losses there to be worse for Russia.

Ukraine also took Kherson without firing a shot.

Their fall offensive was incredibly effective and based on the sheer amount of captured material, vs having to destroy it, I would say that was relatively light given the scale.

I am not seeing too many opportunities for Ukraine to sidle up and grind themselves on the Russians for massive losses.

Shock and Awe doesnt require destroying civilian infrastructure. It speeds it up, but you can ignore the infrastructure if you actually wanted to.

And russia was targetting civilians from day 1. Many malls, apartment blocks, and even schools and hospitals were hit. They never had the kid gloves on like you want to believe.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

And? Isn't the same true for the Russian people?

Putin and Russia didn't want war, silly. They tried fir 8 years after the US lead coup in Kyiv to bring peace. But the Americans and their vassals negotiated in bad faith.

 

[LouderVol]

Nearly two decades in Vietnam
Over two decades off and on in Iraq
Two decades in Afghanistan

And he's calling the Russian officer corp inept. No room to be talking there, buddy. We couldn't beat rice farmers and goatherders and he's trying to flex on Russia fighting a NATO trained, armed and supported military.

you mean the same NATO training that lost to your rice farmers and goat herders?

I mean what's the argument here, our troops only suck when they fight, but are the best trainers in the world?

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

If Russian occupation and enslavement of Ukraine is acceptable to Europe they don't have to supply Ukraine with hardware. What's so ****ing hard for you to understand? I didn't say we should force Europe to buy and supply Ukraine with military hardware.

Our foreign policy muscle would have burdened them with getting involved. That's the main purpose of NATO at this point. Use the Europeans as proxies and be the ones making the sacrifices while we call the shots.

 

[hog88]

Putin and Russia didn't want war, silly. They tried fir 8 years after the US lead coup in Kyiv to bring peace. But the Americans and their vassals negotiated in bad faith.

You know how you avoid war if you don’t want war? You don’t invade your neighbor. I guarantee that had Russia stayed out of Ukraine there wouldn’t be a war.

 

[LouderVol]

The Russians have been fighting NATO (unofficially) while the US cries about having our hands tied in Vietnam, Afghanistan and Syria... hell, and they'll even complain about having their hands tied in Ukraine once this is over in Ukraine. "If we only could have sent more long range weapons, set up a no fly zone and put boots on the ground... we would have really showed them damn Ruskies who's boss..."

Talks about crying, while crying. Ironic.

And still the same double edged standard. NATO is garbage, but also NATO is big meanie to Russia.

 

[hog88]

Our foreign policy muscle would have burdened them with getting involved. That's the main purpose of NATO at this point. Use the Europeans as proxies and be the ones making the sacrifices while we call the shots.

How many tinfoil hats do you own?

 

[LouderVol]

I don't disagree with the bold. I've said many times that we shouldn't be giving anything to Europe/Ukraine, we should be selling them the hardware.

And they will ignore it, and continue to lie and say you fully support the war giving and have a naked poster of Zelensky.

 

[hog88]

Talks about crying, while crying. Ironic.

And still the same double edged standard. NATO is garbage, but also NATO is big meanie to Russia.

NATO has kept Russia safe for over 70 years, you’d think they would be grateful.