War in Ukraine

[LouderVol]

Apparently your brain cannot process or accept our own past military failures. But you and others have no problem judging another country's military who is fighting the largest ground force in Europe. Or second largest if you count Russia as part of Europe.

And for the record I don't place the blame solely on the fine men and women that serve and have served in our military. I place the blame primarily on our politicians, defense industry and military industrial complex who need the conflicts to drag out for long periods of time.

So Russia is struggling fighting a smaller enemy. Glad you could finally admit it.

And they are the biggest AFTER Russia took their territory and shelled Ukraine for 8 years.

 

[LouderVol]

This is just factually untrue. In what universe do you live in?

We took Iraq and got Saddam. What other initial goal did we have?

What was our stated goal in Afghanistan? Run out the Taliban, and establish a Democracy. We did both of those. Of course as soon as we left it all failed, but we still achieved the initial goals.

 

[LouderVol]

How can Europe pay for this?

Its like you guys are programmed to engage in grift and debt slavery. Why should the people of Europe be saddled with these debt burdens?

Isn't it cheaper to simply engage in diplomacy? How about if Europe/NATO kept their promise of not expanding east or just broken up NATO after 1991 and come together with a European security agreement? Isn't that cheaper than arms building?

Ask Russia which is cheaper. They turned to violence first. Sounds like THEIR diplomacy failed first.

Why is it only a failure of the west on the diplomatic front? Diplomacy takes both sides, but you only want to blame the west.

 

[LouderVol]

The problem with America is three things. The underpinning of which is the USA being a predatory nation. Not by any means or imagination that we are alone, or even the inventors of such predation. Just the same, our missions are:

1. We're war-lovers, violence-seekers. It's evident through our entertainment media. The old cowboys TV shows and movies. The children's cartoons, such as Tom & Jerry, Bugs Bunny, Mighty Mouse. The movies from even before Psycho, gangster movies, Blaxation series, and today's ever-increasing gore films. War and just plain violence is our nation's passion.

2. Trumped-up delusions of being the good guys saving others from distress, when in reality we just want to position ourselves to economically, and resource exploit them.

3 Sticking our noses in other people's business, making a mess of their country and culture, then leaving after we have sucked them dry. However, that's backfiring now as we also created conditions that force people to migrate in numbers not seen since the Russians expelled twelve million Germans from Central Europe, ending Hitler's colonization plans for the region.



Now watch the self-righteous responses.

How do you have Bugs Bunny in the same context as Psycho?

 

[LouderVol]

Putin and Russia didn't want war, silly. They tried fir 8 years after the US lead coup in Kyiv to bring peace. But the Americans and their vassals negotiated in bad faith.

As did Russia, as evidenced by their invasion.

Putin very clearly wanted a fight. Heck it's your whole argument for Crimea. Russia needs Crimea in order to have a navy in the black sea, so that they can fight. Without Crimea and Ukraine what strategic purpose does the Black sea serve? The whole Russian naval strategy is based on subs. It's really hard to argue how subs are a defensive tool. I dont see too many boomers chasing down pirates.

 

[LouderVol]

NATO has kept Russia safe for over 70 years, you’d think they would be grateful.

They should be. But it's the same ole small man syndrome from Russia. Everything is a percieved threat or insult to which they over compensate for by beating up on people smaller than themselves.

Remember NATO is at fault, and Russia chose to show that by attacking the non-NATO nation of Ukraine.

That's really holding NATO responsible.

 

[WoodsmanVol]

How do you have Bugs Bunny in the same context as Psycho?

Oh my, my, my. Ummm Lessee. Hmmm, both are fictional portrayals, both are video media, and uh, errrmm, as stated both put violence on display. As stated, they are examples of how violence is an ingrained part of American culture. i suppose I could have used Popeye, but it's the same difference. Ok, reading comprehension class is ended for the period.

 

[WoodsmanVol]

They should be. But it's the same ole small man syndrome from Russia. Everything is a percieved threat or insult to which they over compensate for by beating up on people smaller than themselves.

Remember NATO is at fault, and Russia chose to show that by attacking the non-NATO nation of Ukraine.
That's really holding NATO responsible.

 

[LouderVol]

Oh my, my, my. Ummm Lessee. Hmmm, both are fictional portrayals, both are video media, and uh, errrmm, as stated both put violence on display. As stated, they are examples of how violence is an ingrained part of American culture. i suppose I could have used Popeye, but it's the same difference. Ok, reading comprehension class is ended for the period.

I suppose bumper cars, and whack a mole are also signs of our addiction to violence?

Now that I think about it, half this nation wants to kill the unborn, so maybe you are on to something. Darn that wascally wabbit.

 

[WoodsmanVol]

I suppose bumper cars, and whack a mole are also signs of our addiction to violence?

Now that I think about it, half this nation wants to kill the unborn, so maybe you are on to something. Darn that wascally wabbit.

Seriously, if you look at the history of the USA, from the arrival of Puritans, on up to now, the USA has been constantly in the business of killing, whether in colonial skirmishes, declared and undeclared wars, January 6, 2021, or covert operations in the South American and other hemispheres As a nation, we love violence and engage in it with relish while claiming to be peace loving. Both we and the Brits have small covert forces on the ground in Ukraine right now, "assisting" the Urkies. The Brits are a bit more open about it, though. Same thing in Africa and elsewhere. We need to stay out of other people's business, and take care of the mess we have right here at home instead.

 

[DonjoVol]

So Russia is struggling fighting a smaller enemy. Glad you could finally admit it.

And they are the biggest AFTER Russia took their territory and shelled Ukraine for 8 years.

The U.S. military wouldn't be doing any better under similar circumstances.

And as Ras and others have mentioned earlier, we couldn't even defeat the Taliban. So I'm not sure why such focus on Russia's military, who doesn't even a full force deployed, fighting the largest ground force in Europe.

 

[LouderVol]

Seriously, if you look at the history of the USA, from the arrival of Puritans, on up to now, the USA has been constantly in the business of killing, whether in colonial skirmishes, declared and undeclared wars, January 6, 2021, or covert operations in the South American and other hemispheres As a nation, we love violence and engage in it with relish while claiming to be peace loving. Both we and the Brits have small covert forces on the ground in Ukraine right now, "assisting" the Urkies. The Brits are a bit more open about it, though. Same thing in Africa and elsewhere. We need to stay out of other people's business, and take care of the mess we have right here at home instead.

Everybody is that way. Seriously, go read any original media from any culture. Violence perpetrated everything. It's like sex. It sells.

We evolved having to fight and kill animals and each other to survive. We evolved as predators, its built into us. It's not a US issue.

 

[LouderVol]

The U.S. military wouldn't be doing any better under similar circumstances.

And as Ras and others have mentioned earlier, we couldn't even defeat the Taliban. So I'm not sure why such focus on Russia's military, who doesn't even a full force deployed, fighting the largest ground force in Europe.

But we didnt have our full military fighting the Taliban.

Russia's mighty military didnt do any better against the Taliban, so you arent scoring any points proving Russia is better that way.

And we were fighting on the literal other side of the world, Russia is attacking their neighbor. And oh yeah Russia is flailing around Ukraine and supposedly has the support of the locals, we never had that in Afghanistan.

 

[05_never_again]

Seriously, if you look at the history of the USA, from the arrival of Puritans, on up to now, the USA has been constantly in the business of killing, whether in colonial skirmishes, declared and undeclared wars, January 6, 2021, or covert operations in the South American and other hemispheres As a nation, we love violence and engage in it with relish while claiming to be peace loving. Both we and the Brits have small covert forces on the ground in Ukraine right now, "assisting" the Urkies. The Brits are a bit more open about it, though. Same thing in Africa and elsewhere. We need to stay out of other people's business, and take care of the mess we have right here at home instead.

As the world ever seen a great power, or even a regional or middling power, that didn't conduct themselves that way?

It's human nature. It's actually remarkable how much more civilized the world has become over the last 75 years than the preceding 5,000.

 

[LouderVol]

And I would be willing to bet, even with our same politicians our military would be doing better against Ukraine than Russia is if you flipped the roles.

In 20 years of losing in Afghanistan we had 21k casaulties. The vast majority were wounded. Russia is more than 4 times those losses in less than a year in a war you believe they are winning easily.

 

[DonjoVol]

We took Iraq and got Saddam. What other initial goal did we have?

What was our stated goal in Afghanistan? Run out the Taliban, and establish a Democracy. We did both of those. Of course as soon as we left it all failed, but we still achieved the initial goals.

Under Saddam, religious minorities were free to worship as they pleased. This included Christians, Yazidis, Mandeans, etc. However after our second time around many of these groups along with many other people were persecuted and forced to leave their homeland. So tell me how was that successful for the U.S.? Then you later had the rise of ISIS.

And we never fully established democracy in Afghanistan. Many of the regions were still contested and the Taliban still existed and eventually rose back to power. So no matter how much you spin it they were not successes. Unless you are counting this as a success for our defense industry and military industrial complex who profit from these wars significantly.

 

[DonjoVol]

But we didnt have our full military fighting the Taliban.

Russia's mighty military didnt do any better against the Taliban, so you arent scoring any points proving Russia is better that way.

And we were fighting on the literal other side of the world, Russia is attacking their neighbor. And oh yeah Russia is flailing around Ukraine and supposedly has the support of the locals, we never had that in Afghanistan.

You still aren't proving how this was a success. The Taliban being back in power disproves your point immediately. It was not a war we won. And maybe it was never intended to be a victory.

This was another war that profited our military industrial complex significantly. Plain and simple.

 

[AM64]

This is a good example covering why you can't win in a third world Islamic country like Afghanistan. No real cooperation and a place built on graft. Do they even have an industry other than growing drug poppies and providing training bases for terrorists - sorry, mostly peaceful Islamic missionaries spreading the word.

Afghan Government Officials Helped Smugglers Sneak Almost $1 Billion in Cash and Gold Out of Afghanistan During Collapse

 

[DonjoVol]

We 100% won and achieved our initial goals in both Iraq wars and in Afghanistan in spite of the incompetence of our senior officers and Sec of Defense. What we lost was the peace because we tried to nation build.

What you boobs fail to understand is that our military can function on the battlefield without officers because we do have a professional NCO corp, Russia doesn't.

And what you and your fellow jobbers don't understand is that these conflicts were never designed to establish anything. They were designed to bring in money for our military industrial complex.

 

[MG1968]

And what you and your fellow jobbers don't understand is that these conflicts were never designed to establish anything. They were designed to bring in money for our military industrial complex.

If there’s a Russian oligarch not getting rich from The Translator’s escapades is Ukraine, the Russian MIC is just as inept as it’s M.

 

[Velo Vol]

 

[headhunter15]

 

[Paper_Towel]

Yeah I've noticed we have quite a few Armchair Privates in this group.

The fact remains we are still wasting our time and money on Ukraine when we have worse problems at home. We should be cleaning up our own mess before we go and try to fix the rest of the world.

Watch out everyone, here comes the senior specialist to **** on everyone.

 

[Orangeburst]

Weird timing with Congress about to roll over.

 

[hog88]

The U.S. military wouldn't be doing any better under similar circumstances.

And as Ras and others have mentioned earlier, we couldn't even defeat the Taliban. So I'm not sure why such focus on Russia's military, who doesn't even a full force deployed, fighting the largest ground force in Europe.

We did defeat the Taliban, defeated them handily. Our ROE let them regroup in Pakistan and come back but our military definitely defeated them.