War in Ukraine

#54,152
#54,152
Pacer92 said:
Rational people have called exactly that…when Kiev was killing women and children by the thousands.

Then the never ending deflection commences..
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The irony of you bringing up "never ending deflection," while deflecting isn't lost on anyone. We've come to expect it.

Literally no one here as condoned the ethnic violence in the Donbass - only one side is attempting to justify or rationalize atrocities with more atrocities. It's your failure to recognize this is why no one will take you seriously.

Your arguments are as tired and busted as the russian armor smoldering on the Ukranian countryside.
 
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#54,153
#54,153
Pacer92 said:
Nobody has denied they invaded..

They will see that annexed oblasts are free of NATO guns.
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Pootin galvanized NATO, increased the footprint on Russias doorstep, NATO members are ramping up defense spending and weaning themselves off of Russian oil.

It's debatable that Russia will hang on to the land they've stolen, but from the perspective of keeping NATO "guns" free from being on Russia doorstep - they've already lost. Finland and Sweden will very soon be part of the equation.

Literally no rational person on the planet believes that Russia is the victim in this, it is hilarious however watching you guys try to spin that.
 
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#54,155
#54,155
Septic said:
The irony of you bringing up "never ending deflection," while deflecting isn't lost on anyone. We've come to expect it.

Literally no one here as condoned the ethnic violence in the Donbass - only one side is attempting to justify or rationalize atrocities with more atrocities. It's your failure to recognize this why no one will take you seriously.

Your arguments are as tired and busted as the russian armor smoldering on the Ukranian countryside.
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You have one pass the blame post after another. You have a stance of not condoning the bully picking on a weakling, but when the bigger bully comes in to rightfully slap around the bully,..it’s then unfair. What a ridiculous take…
 
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#54,160
#54,160
MG1968 said:
Is Harry Truman still President and is the US in a state of declared war against Japan?
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No to both. What are you driving at? The people running things in the US right now are going to mission creep us towards a nuclear escalation. I'm not sure what you think you are doing.
 
#54,161
#54,161
Rasputin_Vol said:
The Russians have been fighting NATO (unofficially) while the US cries about having our hands tied in Vietnam, Afghanistan and Syria... hell, and they'll even complain about having their hands tied in Ukraine once this is over in Ukraine. "If we only could have sent more long range weapons, set up a no fly zone and put boots on the ground... we would have really showed them damn Ruskies who's boss..."
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We fought Chechnyaians in Afghanistan. So take that bs elsewhere. Know your stuff before you spout your bs. We’ve been fighting Russia and Iranian supported militias and militaries for years.
 
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#54,162
#54,162
hog88 said:
Don’t go al Ras on me and try to tie completely irrelevant historical events to present day in an attempt to make a point.

Events in Europe pre our involve in WW2 has nothing to to do and is not comparable to what is happening today BUT I’ll play along. Everyone remembers “Lend/Lease” where we sold war hardware and material on credit to allied countries, mainly the USSR and England. We even got paid for most of what we sent, not all but the majority. But prior to the lend/lease act being passed allied countries had to purchase any war material/hardware cash on the barrel head and transport their supplies. So we did help prior to our direct involvement in the war without mortgaging future generations like we are doing now.

Europe has been a welfare continent since WW2 and have lived under the umbrella of the security we provide them all the while acting like petulant children biting the hand that protects them. They need to put on their big girl panties and secure their own back yard on their dime.
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I was really thinking more the boots on the ground and lives at stake than Lend/Lease, and I do agree with you about needing to trim support to Europe. At least if they had to cut back on the social programs and put more toward defense, we might not keep hearing from our own libs how great European socialized medicine and other stuff is.

I'm looking at this in a broader sense in that what's happening in Ukraine is a major power expanding boundaries - one that we trimmed down to size, and one that wasn't just a threat to Europe. Russia is a more immediate threat to Europe, but should Russia accomplish what WW2 Germany was seeking to accomplish, then because of the differences in weaponry, Russia becomes a real threat to us ... again. I see the same thing with respect to China; a local problem can become a global problem. Suppose when China was becoming a nuclear threat, we had nipped it in the bud. We and much of the world have been peaceful and let fledgling bullies turn into something we have no real means to deal with. To the extent that we keep Russia in check, it seems that what we spend to support Ukraine is well worth the outcome. Just my opinion; history may tell what today's response should have been.

As far as the thing about "nipping China in the bud", it couldn't have happened because the Soviets were backing China. That's the other part of the equation and the tough one to deal with. We, Russia, and China operate on a different level than other nations. We may be removed, but our position as a power is not the same as let's say Germany or Poland. Again just my opinion that I see when viewing the world
 
#54,163
#54,163
Rasputin_Vol said:
No to both. What are you driving at? The people running things in the US right now are going to mission creep us towards a nuclear escalation. I'm not sure what you think you are doing.
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You said Russia and China never have. This is true, of course. The problem is that you ignored the millions murdered by communists just so you can kvetch about ONLY the US’ sins of the past. It might score points with other like-minded simpletons, particularly in this thread, but it’s intellectually dishonest to leave out context.
 
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#54,165
#54,165
norrislakevol said:
Bush was horrible his second term. The other choice that election cycle was John Kerry....GAG!

Bush's last term is when out of control spending really started in Washington. He didn't has the ba!!s to clamp down on it. Then Obama followed and it has been absolutely insane ever since.
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Without 9/11, Bush would have been nothing.
 
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#54,168
#54,168
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#54,170
#54,170
Rasputin_Vol said:
The central bank lowered/devalued their ruble in order to compensate for slightly lower oil prices. They still want to get close to the same number of rubles for oil/gas purchases.

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More stupidity to hurt the average Russian for the sake of appearances. The cost of all imported goods just went up again. And nobody wants Russian made junk they want western goods.
 
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#54,174
#54,174
Pacer92 said:
When you choose to move forcibly against your own civilians, you reap what you sow. The annexation of Crimea was a reaction to the US stealing the government of Ukraine…tit for tat.

Negotiations would have prevented the destruction of this country.
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Russia wants Crimea for naval bases. Russia want's eastern Ukraine so it has unimpeded passage to Crimea ... and naval bases. Then Turkey is either compliant or screwed. Russian nuke subs are a global problem - not just European. Ukraine was in the way; Turkey will be in the way.
 
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