War in Ukraine

[norrislakevol]

Pretty sure Javelins are older than Patriots and they’ve been rocking Russian armor from day 1 just like the Stingers.

I just looked it up. The stinger was put into service in 1981. The Patriot was put into service in 1984. The Javelin was put into service in 1996. The Patriot missile systems have been updated anyways though.

 

[MontyPython]

MERRY CHRISTMAS ALL!!!

BTW Rogozin is a dirty Russian who 100% deserves...

December 23, 2022, 07:44 Rogozin was wounded in the groin and may lose his reproductive organ - media Wounded in the occupied Donetsk, the ex-head of Rosksmos Dmitry Rogozin, it turns out, not only the fifth point is injured. On December 21, in Donetsk, in the Shesh-besh restaurant, the occupiers' party on the occasion of the birthday of the former chief "cosmonaut" of Russia ended tragically. For some guests, this was the last event in their lives, and for Rogozin himself, it turned out to be a shameful injury. The media released new details. It turns out that the birthday boy has more injuries. According to the DPR militants' public pages, Rogozin received a shrapnel wound to the soft tissues of the head, a penetrating shrapnel wound to the buttocks, a penetrating shrapnel wound to the left thigh, as well as the groin, the Ukraine 365 Telegram channel reports. The head and trunk of the penis have been dissected, the former Russian Deputy Prime Minister and head of Roskosmos is threatened with a complete amputation of the penis. Doctors are fighting to save the reproductive organ, but the chances are very small.

 

[AM64]

MERRY CHRISTMAS ALL!!!

BTW Rogozin is a dirty Russian who 100% deserves...

December 23, 2022, 07:44 Rogozin was wounded in the groin and may lose his reproductive organ - media Wounded in the occupied Donetsk, the ex-head of Rosksmos Dmitry Rogozin, it turns out, not only the fifth point is injured. On December 21, in Donetsk, in the Shesh-besh restaurant, the occupiers' party on the occasion of the birthday of the former chief "cosmonaut" of Russia ended tragically. For some guests, this was the last event in their lives, and for Rogozin himself, it turned out to be a shameful injury. The media released new details. It turns out that the birthday boy has more injuries. According to the DPR militants' public pages, Rogozin received a shrapnel wound to the soft tissues of the head, a penetrating shrapnel wound to the buttocks, a penetrating shrapnel wound to the left thigh, as well as the groin, the Ukraine 365 Telegram channel reports. The head and trunk of the penis have been dissected, the former Russian Deputy Prime Minister and head of Roskosmos is threatened with a complete amputation of the penis. Doctors are fighting to save the reproductive organ, but the chances are very small.

He'll be less a prick going forward apparently. Too bad Pootin missed the dinner.

 

[NorthDallas40]

I just looked it up. The stinger was put into service in 1981. The Patriot was put into service in 1984. The Javelin was put into service in 1996. The Patriot missile systems have been updated anyways though.

Huh. I figured Javelin was earlier than that and didn’t know Patriot went back that far. Learned something today!

 

[Orangeburst]

So it’s worse than that. Since the 90’s the law has required annual audits. DoD couldn’t meet that deadline and made their first attempt at an audit in 2017. There have been 5 annual DoD audits. They failed all five of them.

Defense Department fails another audit, but makes progress

Things like this sure can lead one to believe the worst.

state-dept-refuses-audit-1-billion-spent-taliban-afghanistan

 

[evillawyer]

Interesting

 

[AM64]

Huh. I figured Javelin was earlier than that and didn’t know Patriot went back that far. Learned something today!

Time flies. The first I remember of Patriots was the first war in Iran.

 

[Orangeburst]

Time flies. The first I remember of Patriots was the first war in Iran.

Iraq?
Those Tomahawks flying right by the hotel were like awesome

 

[NorthDallas40]

Iraq?
Those Tomahawks flying right by the hotel were like awesome

Tomahawks are old school precision guidance. Those guys practiced the arts of the old guidance gods.

 

[Orangeburst]

Tomahawks are old school precision guidance. Those guys practiced the arts of the old guidance gods.

I know terrain mapping was an intelligence PIA, but if those GPS sats go out, seems like old school is still good.

 

[NorthDallas40]

Interesting

Absolutely no idea of credibility of this source but they are a news aggregator. This is from Dec. 12. Their banking system has been artificially propped up since March and perhaps it’s finally starting to show the inevitable cracks. Just in time for Christmas. Cut pensioners off from their vodka, potato, and beautiful egg money and things should get down hill quickly if this is all tied together and real.

 

[Orangeburst]

europe-is-rushing-arms-to-ukraine-but-running-out-of-ammo-11671707775

I was able to read it

 

[AM64]

Iraq?
Those Tomahawks flying right by the hotel were like awesome

The Patriots we and Israel used against Iraqi Scuds. Not sure how effective they we because several Scuds got through to hit Israeli homes. That's the first I remember about Patriot missiles..

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Graham: U.S. Should Be 'Completely All In, Without Equivocation' on Ukraine

Swamp Azz Puts foreign country above Americans film at 11.

Lindsey Graham: Putin's Assassination is Only Way to End War in Ukraine

Unfit to serve.

Sen. Lindsey Graham: Someone Must "Take Out" Putin For War To End | ZeroHedge

Graham said Moscow's invasion won't succeed because the United States is "in it to win it, and the only way you’re gonna win it is to break the Russian military and have somebody in Russia take Putin out to give the Russian people a new lease on life."

He also called on Washington and NATO to keep up arms and support for Ukraine "completely, all in without equivocation," and further that ramping up long-range missile transfers to Kiev would help "dislodge" Russian forces from the Donbas, and even Crimea.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Nope. I'm saying that Russia could be more adamant about getting in and out of the Bosporus. For all it's size, Russia has a real problem with sea access, and the Bosporus is important ... and straddled by Turkey. I'm not so sure that Turkey's real objection to Sweden becoming part of NATO has to do with the fact that it puts two NATO nations in strategic locations with respect to Baltic access - almost like a case of jealousy and Turkey being put more on the spot with Black Sea importance.

So again.. what are you saying? That Turkey will block Russian access through the Bosphorus?

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Maybe Ras will be along to fix the Soviet/Russian ... context again ( and yeah, Marx was German and Stalin was Georgian, blah, blah, blah all the way home).

So you are aware of at least some history and facts...

What was Lenin?
What was Trotsky?
What was Brezhnev?
What was even Khrushchev?

 

[AM64]

So again.. what are you saying? That Turkey will block Russian access through the Bosphorus?

Nope, I'm saying that Turkey gets put in a more difficult position with Sweden in NATO, and two NATO nations straddling the Kattegat. Turkey had to appease one side and anger the other, and the problem grows if the Russian Baltic fleet becomes less secure and Russia moves more to the Black Sea. This whole Ukrainian thing is about Crimea, sea bases, and easy access from Russia proper to Crimea.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Sour grapes much?

Ask the Houthis and Saudis about Patriot missiles...

Costly Saudi defenses prove no match for drones, cruise missiles

Intercepting drones possibly worth several hundred dollars with Patriots is also extremely expensive, with each missile costing around $3 million.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Interesting

Long lines at ATMs
Kremlin Coup
Finland and Sweden join NATO
Strike on Wagner Group HQ
Patriot missiles
Oil price cap
Bakhmut is not strategically important
Kherson Kherson Kherson
MH-17
"f*** the EU.."
Kerch Bridge
Starlink
Balakliya
Article 5
100k Russians dead
Stealing chips from washing machines/refrigerators/televisions
Institute for the Study of War
"Ruble will be rubble"
Million Man Ukrainian army
McDonalds/IKEA/Coca Cola/H&M/Louis Vuitton
Eggs
Russia running out of missiles/drones
Russia can't fight in winter/frostbite
Polish Mig-29s
Javelina
Azovstal "evacuation"
Stingers
No fly zones
40 mile caravan outside of Kyiv
Switchblade drones
Ghost of Kiev
Obese General
Blood Cancer
Sham referenda
"isolated"
ruble will be rubble
American/Qatari/Azerbaijani LNG
Butcher of Bucha
"the international community"
Russia sabotaged their own pipelines
Parkinsons
HIMARS
A-10 Warthogs
Abrams tanks
I saw it on the evening news
It must be true if it's on Twitter
100 Billion will bring Russia to its knees
Snake Island
Meat grinder
Game changers
Ukrainian Nazis are no big deal
Lukashenko's breath mints
Tooth Fairy
Soviet Union still exists
Trailer Park of the world
Pootin
Pootin Stooges
Larry Moe Curly

 

[AM64]

So you are aware of at least some history and facts...

What was Lenin?
What was Trotsky?
What was Brezhnev?
What was even Khrushchev?

Are we back to saying conquered and held territory belongs to the conqueror in perpetuity? Yeah, parts of Ukraine have been either subjugated by the Russian Empire or by the Russian operated Soviet Union, and some Russians were born in what is now Ukraine. This is the whether someone was a Soviet or a Russian thing all over again. Should China be part of Japan since Japan held big parts of China at one time? The fact is a lot of historic borders were a lot less defined that we'd like to think, but there was still a treaty (complete with detailed maps) between Russia and Ukraine delineating the Ukraine/Russian border. It was signed by both parties and is held by the UN, and Russia clearly has troops on the wrong side of the border. That's pretty indisputable, and it wasn't an act forced by capitulation or surrender following armed conflict.

 

[Pepe_Silvia]

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Are we back to saying conquered and held territory belongs to the conqueror in perpetuity? Yeah, parts of Ukraine have been either subjugated by the Russian Empire or by the Russian operated Soviet Union, and some Russians were born in what is now Ukraine. This is the whether someone was a Soviet or a Russian thing all over again. Should China be part of Japan since Japan held big parts of China at one time? The fact is a lot of historic borders were a lot less defined that we'd like to think, but there was still a treaty (complete with detailed maps) between Russia and Ukraine delineating the Ukraine/Russian border. It was signed by both parties and is held by the UN, and Russia clearly has troops on the wrong side of the border. That's pretty indisputable, and it wasn't an act forced by capitulation or surrender following armed conflict.

Lets just stick with the Kosovo model and example the NATO used and then apply that to everything else afterwards... just to make things fair and equal.

 

[evillawyer]

Ask the Houthis and Saudis about Patriot missiles...

Costly Saudi defenses prove no match for drones, cruise missiles

Ukrainians already said they're not using pats for drones.

 

[AM64]

Lets just stick with the Kosovo model and example the NATO used and then apply that to everything else afterwards... just to make things fair and equal.

Now NATO is important? It seems like a document clearly delineating a border signed freely by two longstanding UN members (one of which is a permanent member of the Security Council with veto power) as a UN recognized treaty should be pretty inviolate. Further, the country with veto power and who apparently freely agreed to the border is the one in violation. Sorry, but nothing else matters. Russia signed a deal, wanted to back out, and had a hissy fit when the lesser country didn't want to back down.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Ukrainians already said they're not using pats for drones.

I only pointed out that one quote to show you the economic feasibility and disadvantages of Patriots. Trust e, however, they will not be effective against hypersonic missiles, either. And it has already been shown on the battlefield that S-300s are more effective than Patriot systems.

Facts... we are not even talking about S-400 or S-500 systems. S-300s are in the same generation as Patriots from the early 1980s and still outperform them right now.