War in Ukraine

[DonjoVol]

Iranian drones
North Korean troops
Finland and Sweden join NATO
Strike on Wagner Group HQ
Patriot missiles
Oil price cap
Bakhmut is not strategically important
Kherson Kherson Kherson
MH-17
"f*** the EU.."
Kerch Bridge
Article 5
100k Russians dead
Stealing chips from washing machines/refrigerators/televisions
Institute for the Study of War
"Ruble will be rubble"
Million Man Ukrainian army
McDonalds/IKEA/Coca Cola/H&M/Louis Vuitton
Long lines at ATMs
Eggs
Russia running out of missiles/drones
Russia can't fight in winter/frostbite
Polish Mig-29s
Javelina
Azovstal "evacuation"
Stingers
No fly zones
40 mile caravan outside of Kyiv
Switchblade drones
Ghost of Kiev
Obese General
Kremlin Coup
Blood Cancer
Parkinsons
HIMARS
A-10 Warthogs
Abrams tanks
I saw it on the evening news
It must be true if it's on Twitter
100 Billion will bring Russia to its knees
Snake Island
Meat grinder
Game changers
Ukrainian Nazis are no big deal
Lukashenko's breath mints
Tooth Fairy
Soviet Union still exists
Trailer Park of the world
Pootin
Pootin Stooges
Larry Moe Curly
Bradleys
Strykers
Leopards
"It's not the flex you think it is"
"Sign me up!" - Septic
Steven Seagal is a Pootin puppet
Gay Nazis
Patrick Lancaster's staged scenes
China and Afghanistan
Smooth brain
Homer
Putinistas
Sack of potatoes
Tractors

Made some additions to their greatest hits

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

 

[BeardedVol]

Item #10??? How about Item #1?

View attachment 531057

And?

If Russia had complied with the agreements, and removed their troops and weapons from eastern Ukraine, they wouldn't have been fired up on.

Why are you of the mindset that only Ukraine was obligated to adhere to the tenants of the agreement, when the only reason the agreement exists in the first place, is because Russia had violated the Budapest Memorandum, and invaded Ukraine?

 

[KB5252]

Then why did they attempt 3 unsuccessful counteroffensives in the past 2 days?

I think the rest of his sentence spells that out pretty distinctly does it not? Why highlight one sentence fragment?

 

[jmacvols1]

US Army Vet From Iowa Rats Out Ukrainian Corruption

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

And?

If Russia had complied with the agreements, and removed their troops and weapons from eastern Ukraine, they wouldn't have been fired up on.

Why are you of the mindset that only Ukraine was obligated to adhere to the tenants of the agreement, when the only reason the agreement exists in the first place, is because Russia had violated the Budapest Memorandum, and invaded Ukraine?

The US violated the Budapest Memorandum when they staged the February 2014 coup.

 

[BeardedVol]

The US violated the Budapest Memorandum when they staged the February 2014 coup.

The US was not a signatory of Minsk.

Regardless of your delusions about what happened in 2014. Those events have zero bearing on the fact that Russia didn't adhere to their obligations under Minsk.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

And really, the Budapest Memorandum was violated in 2004 when the US staged color revolution in Ukraine. Also, the 2013 trade deal with the EU that Yanukovich rejected would have been a violation because it was an all or nothing deal that would have prohibited Ukraine from signing a trade deal with Russia if they signed the EU deal ("economic coercion").

You guys need to get off of this Budapest Memorandum nonsense. Its a dead end. Besides, Ukraine didn't have control of the Soviet nukes on their soil anymore than Turkiye has control of the US nukes there.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

The US was not a signatory of Minsk.

I know they weren't. We are talking about the Budapest Memorandum. Keep up.

Regardless of your delusions about what happened in 2014. Those events have zero bearing on the fact that Russia didn't adhere to their obligations under Minsk.

As long as the other side was still shelling Donbas and as we now know were negotiating in bad faith, the Minsk deal was just paper.

 

[BeardedVol]

And really, the Bdapest Memorandum was violated in 2004 when the US staged color revolution in Ukraine. Also, the 2013 trade deal with the EU that Yanukovich rejected would have been a violation because it was an all or nothing deal that would have prohibited Ukraine from signing a trade deal with Russia if they signed the EU deal ("economic coercion").

You guys need to get off of this Budapest Memorandum nonsense. Its a dead end. Besides, Ukraine didn't have control of the Soviet nukes on their soil anymore than Turkiye has control of the US nukes there.

You've provided zero evidence that The US was involved in the orange revolution, in any way.

Given that it was Putin's man Yanukovych who would have been the benefactor of the attempted election fraud in 2004, it's much more likely that Russia was attempting to meddle in Ukrainian affairs, not the US.

 

[BeardedVol]

I know they weren't. We are talking about the Budapest Memorandum. Keep up.

View attachment 531106


As long as the other side was still shelling Donbas and as we now know were negotiating in bad faith, the Minsk deal was just paper.

Shelling Russian troops and equipment in eastern Ukraine, not inside Russia.

Again, if Russia could complied with their obligations, and removed their soldiers, they would have eliminated the possibility of them being fired up on.

 

[tvolsfan]

And really, the Bdapest Memorandum was violated in 2004 when the US staged color revolution in Ukraine. Also, the 2013 trade deal with the EU that Yanukovich rejected would have been a violation because it was an all or nothing deal that would have prohibited Ukraine from signing a trade deal with Russia if they signed the EU deal ("economic coercion").

None of this is true

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

You've provided zero evidence that The US was involved in the orange revolution, in any way.

I wasn't asked to until now. But here you go... straight from the horses mouth (National Endowment for Democracy)

Revolution Redux: Can Ukrainian Society Be Re-Mobilized in Defense of Democracy - NATIONAL ENDOWMENT FOR DEMOCRACY

The post-Orange Revolution period is now seen as a time of missed opportunities. In 2004, Ukrainian society mobilized to defend political and civic rights in the face of flawed presidential elections. NGOs across the country played a significant role in informing citizens, educating voters, mobilizing the electorate and monitoring the election process. After the 2004 election, however, many NGOs failed to hold the new government accountable and turned away from working on grassroots civic issues to become a more professionalized third sector divorced from its constituency.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Shelling Russian troops and equipment in eastern Ukraine, not inside Russia.

Again, if Russia could complied with their obligations, and removed their soldiers, they would have eliminated the possibility of them being fired up on.

Kyiv wasn't just firing on soldiers, they were (and still are) targeting civilians.

 

[BeardedVol]

I wasn't asked to until now. But here you go... straight from the horses mouth (National Endowment for Democracy)

Revolution Redux: Can Ukrainian Society Be Re-Mobilized in Defense of Democracy - NATIONAL ENDOWMENT FOR DEMOCRACY

So you found an article written in 2011, that is somehow a smoking gun for US involvement in the orange revolution in Ukraine?

Please cite the specific phrase(s) in the article that indicates US responsibility for Ukrainians being upset that Yanukovych attempted to rig an election in 2004.

 

[BeardedVol]

Kyiv wasn't just firing on soldiers, they were (and still are) targeting civilians.

It's unfortunate that civilians tend to get caught in the crossfire, but since Russia stations its troops in civilian areas, that's bound to happen.

Again, if Russia had removed it's troops from Ukraine in compliance with Minsk, no chance to break the ceasefire.

It's bizarre that you don't understand the concept of repelling a foreign invasion.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

So you found an article written in 2011, that is somehow a smoking gun for US involvement in the orange revolution in Ukraine?

Not only is it a smoking gun about 2004, but what they would be doing leading up the the winter of 2013/2014.

Please cite the specific phrase(s) in the article that indicates US responsibility for Ukrainians being upset that Yanukovych attempted to rig an election in 2004.

That wasn't the original question you asked me. You are moving the goalposts. Your original statement was:

You've provided zero evidence that The US was involved in the orange revolution, in any way.

With regards to this new question/statement, we are going to be going back and forth with news and commentaries from my side and your side about alleged corruption in the voting. But with regards to your original statement, you cannot refute what I posted coming directly from the NED.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

It's unfortunate that civilians tend to get caught in the crossfire, but since Russia stations its troops in civilian areas, that's bound to happen.

Again, if Russia had removed it's troops from Ukraine in compliance with Minsk, no chance to break the ceasefire.

It's bizarre that you don't understand the concept of repelling a foreign invasion.

Russia was only following the Serbia model set by the US/UK in 1999.

 

[BeardedVol]

Not only is it a smoking gun about 2004, but what they would be doing leading up the the winter of 2013/2014.


That wasn't the original question you asked me. You are moving the goalposts. Your original statement was:



With regards to this new question/statement, we are going to be going back and forth with news and commentaries from my side and your side about alleged corruption in the voting. But with regards to your original statement, you cannot refute what I posted coming directly from the NED.

So there's nothing in that article that indicates the US was responsible for Yanukovych's attempt to rig the election, or the Ukrainian populace getting upset at him doing so?

Why'd you link it then?

 

[BeardedVol]

Russia was only following the Serbia model set by the US/UK in 1999.

You should Google the concept of "false equivalence".

The Myth of Russian Separatists in the Donbas – Byline Times

 

[evillawyer]

Onward Christian soldiers, right @Rasputin_Vol

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

So there's nothing in that article that indicates the US was responsible for Yanukovych's attempt to rig the election, or the Ukrainian populace getting upset at him doing so?

Why'd you link it then?

I linked it in response to your original statement about US involvement..

You've provided zero evidence that The US was involved in the orange revolution, in any way.

Once I posted that, you are now moving the goalposts on to alleged election rigging.

 

[BeardedVol]

I linked it in response to your original statement about US involvement..



Once I posted that, you are now moving the goalposts on to alleged election rigging.

You could have also linked a waffle house menu, and it would have included the same amount of proof of US involvement in the orange revolution.

Feel free to cite the section of the article that you believe supports your assertions.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

You should Google the concept of "false equivalence".

The Myth of Russian Separatists in the Donbas – Byline Times

I actually agree with you on this. It is a false equivalence. At least Russia intervened on a crisis on their own border with people that identified as Russian people.

The US and UK intervening in Serbia is obviously a different story.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

You could have also linked a waffle house menu, and it would have included the same amount of proof of US involvement in the orange revolution.

Feel free to cite the section of the article that you believe supports your assertions.

You are coping now. I posted and highlighted the admission.