War in Ukraine

#56,201
#56,201
Rasputin_Vol said:
If that were the case, you wouldn't have seen all of this hand wringing from Germany over the past week or so about sending tanks. Ir for that matter, since mo one is scared of Russia, what is stopping the US from just jumping in directly right now and cut the bull$#it.
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Underground Trump alliance. The band will be getting back together in 2024.
 
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#56,202
#56,202
NorthDallas40 said:
More details coming out on the Ukrainian officials resignations and dismissals over corruption concerns.

Ukraine corruption scandal claims several top officials

And after watching some of the Putin nut huggers get all lathered up just knowing this will have some impact on the aid. So it actually will have an impact. A positive one. Because this us what dealing with corruption properly actually looks like. It’s a very good thing these individuals were fired or forced to resign and illustrates Ukraine’s ongoing efforts to root out corruption. And they’ve still got a long way to go.
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If they really were serious about rooting out corruption, Zelensky would be gone also.
 
#56,204
#56,204
Rasputin_Vol said:
If that were the case, you wouldn't have seen all of this hand wringing from Germany over the past week or so about sending tanks. Ir for that matter, since mo one is scared of Russia, what is stopping the US from just jumping in directly right now and cut the bull$#it.
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Because we arent involved as you think we are. There are several steps still to take before we reach direct involvement.

By the same token, what's holding back Russia from attacking NATO? Since they are already fighting NATO troops, why not declare war, or special operation? Why not cut the bs, and go after the "real" bad guys and leave little ole Ukraine alone?
 
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#56,206
#56,206
TVOLS said:
What are the differences between Iraq invading Kuwait and Russia invading Ukraine? I supported the coalition forces to oust Iraq out of Kuwait and I'm just pondering how far would I support the Ukrainian people with my tax dollars. It seems to me the plan is not to invade Russia, but to kick them out of Ukraine that's all everybody wants.
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Kuwait nor Ukraine border issues are none of our business. But our southern border with Mexico???
 
#56,208
#56,208
PEPPERJAX said:
Underground Trump alliance. The band will be getting back together in 2024.
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Nonsense. If the Deep State/Swamp overruled Trump's desire to pull out of Syria when he was POTUS, WTF makes you think they would lift a finger for Trump in Ukraine (this is of course assuming your accusation about Trump nuthuggers still pulling strings is true)?
 
#56,211
#56,211
Rasputin_Vol said:
So the Abrams tanks won't be on the scene anytime soon if they have to build them and we already know that these Leopards and Challengers will take at least a year to be retrofitted. Then, tack on the time needed to train and you are talking 2025. The Kyiv regime doesn't have that much time left.
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Rasputin_Vol said:
That's what I am understanding also... which means they have to be retrofitted and repaired. Even if they are ordering brand new tanks off the fresh off the assembly line, they still won't get the tanks before this time next year at the earliest.
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#56,212
#56,212
Rasputin_Vol said:
Nonsense. If the Deep State/Swamp overruled Trump's desire to pull out of Syria when he was POTUS, WTF makes you think they would lift a finger for Trump in Ukraine (this is of course assuming your accusation about Trump nuthuggers still pulling strings is true)?
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You can be the most gullible DA in here on occasion.
 
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#56,215
#56,215
Speaking of Belarus. What is everyone's opinion on the matter?

They have been directly aiding the Russians. Maybe even more so than the west is helping Ukraine. They continually allow air offensives to use their bases, same with some of the missile attacks on civilians, at the start of the war the Russians invaded Ukraine over the Belarussian border. They are treating Russian wounded. Have supplied food, equipment, and arms. Plenty of Intel one would assume.

Are they more involved than the west?
Can they be considered beligenerents since multiple attacks have come from their soil?
What happens if Belarus officially enters the war and sends their own troops?

I think the Belarussian people really dont want a war, and lack of popular support has limited their involvement to this point. But consider it a hypothethecial.

I think it would put real heavy pressure on Ukraine that I doubt they could hold up to, with most of their effort in the east vs the Russians.
 
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#56,216
#56,216
LouderVol said:
Speaking of Belarus. What is everyone's opinion on the matter?

They have been directly aiding the Russians. Maybe even more so than the west is helping Ukraine. They continually allow air offensives to use their bases, same with some of the missile attacks on civilians, at the start of the war the Russians invaded Ukraine over the Belarussian border. They are treating Russian wounded. Have supplied food, equipment, and arms. Plenty of Intel one would assume.

Are they more involved than the west?
Can they be considered beligenerents since multiple attacks have come from their soil?
What happens if Belarus officially enters the war and sends their own troops?

I think the Belarussian people really dont want a war, and lack of popular support has limited their involvement to this point. But consider it a hypothethecial.

I think it would put real heavy pressure on Ukraine that I doubt they could hold up to, with most of their effort in the east vs the Russians.
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A genuinely committed Belarus would definitely present an additional headache. It's hard to know how effective they would be with their troops marching at Russian gunpoint.

The flip side is what happens if Lukashenko tries to join the war and it results in an uprising? That would be a massive headache for Russia that could hamper them even more in Ukraine.
 
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#56,217
#56,217
LouderVol said:
Speaking of Belarus. What is everyone's opinion on the matter?

They have been directly aiding the Russians. Maybe even more so than the west is helping Ukraine. They continually allow air offensives to use their bases, same with some of the missile attacks on civilians, at the start of the war the Russians invaded Ukraine over the Belarussian border. They are treating Russian wounded. Have supplied food, equipment, and arms. Plenty of Intel one would assume.

Are they more involved than the west?
Can they be considered beligenerents since multiple attacks have come from their soil?
What happens if Belarus officially enters the war and sends their own troops?

I think the Belarussian people really dont want a war, and lack of popular support has limited their involvement to this point. But consider it a hypothethecial.

I think it would put real heavy pressure on Ukraine that I doubt they could hold up to, with most of their effort in the east vs the Russians.
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IMO Lukashenko is balancing his fear of being ousted by his own citizens against his fear of Putin.
 
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#56,219
#56,219
Sgt_Nick_Fury said:
Ukraine Rocked By Corruption Scandal, Wave Of Top Officials Resign: Sports Cars, Mansions & Luxury Vacations As People Suffered | ZeroHedge
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You do realize you are using a stooge news outlet? It's deplorable in any case, but have you looked in your own backyard lately? Our government is full of the same kind of stuff; many of the houses seem as lavish, but maybe our congress critters are a little less ostentatious on the cars. At least Ukraine has had a mass resignation ... we haven't. The entire soviet union was riddled with this kind of corruption, and it doesn't die easily. Spain was as corrupt as you can get when it colonized virtually an entire hemisphere south of our border; that was centuries ago and all of those places are still corrupt. China mastered corruption long before that even, and they are still masters of deceit and corruption, but our corporate, investment, and government "leaders" had no problem at all crawling in bed with them. Not excusing anybody for this crap, but don't single out one place and ignore the rest.
 
#56,220
#56,220
tvolsfan said:
A genuinely committed Belarus would definitely present an additional headache. It's hard to know how effective they would be with their troops marching at Russian gunpoint.

The flip side is what happens if Lukashenko tries to join the war and it results in an uprising? That would be a massive headache for Russia that could hamper them even more in Ukraine.
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Mhmm. Your second paragraph makes a ton of sense. And fits with the current temperature in Belarus imo.
 
#56,221
#56,221
USF grad in TN said:
IMO Lukashenko is balancing his fear of being ousted by his own citizens against his fear of Putin.
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Yeah. He was a victim of his people freely self determining, and Russia helped put them down. Funny how that works.

If it favors Russia, they support the government over freely determining people. If it hurts Russia, they help the freely determining people create the will to rise against their government.
 
#56,223
#56,223
WBO said:
I hate it when I have to agree with Hog but he's pretty close here. You really can't win a 30 to 1 ratio (it took 10 Shermans to kill one Tiger in open country) but it's going to be fun to see the best Russian tanks (which are not in our class) square off against the Abrams in what may be the best tank fighting terrain in the world. Assuming the Russians don't fully commit their airpower, it should be a wipeout.

I've also been reading that the Russians new tank, the T-14 Armata is a maintenance nightmare and currently they can only get a portion of them in operational condition. Went to one of their propaganda websites called Russia Beyond. Pure fantasy when describing their capabilities.
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That's a problem though. If the weather is halfway decent and without knockout air defenses, all those tanks are simply sitting ducks for somebody with airpower or even good artillery and drone spotters. No lessons learned from Iraq? It's the same with a lot of the stuff the Navy is floating. The world is still trying to fight wars with methodology from the last war and overwhelm it with technology. If nothing else, Ukraine is a real lab for learning what works today ... but maybe not even tomorrow. The only winners are the people selling weapons and developing new generations of stuff.

Here's a question that I've never seen discussed. What happens when we finally completely automate warfare? What's the meaning if the losses aren't personal? Do wars just continue on with casualties on the civilian side - whether intended or just "bad luck". Do we return to bombing cities with missiles and robot bombers to kill and maim the innocent with no military lives at stake? Do we keep developing more and more complex and expensive equipment that you can't keep operating until one side goes broke or the population revolts over the cost? When does the BS of developing overpriced overly complex equipment sitting on the ground because it's too complex to keep in the air or on the battlefield in place of larger numbers of less complex machines end? It's not just the military; look at auto racing like F1 - those cars might as well be drones. Look at collegiate sports. We are the problem; the military procurement and development is simply a garish display of our inability to reign in our technological lust.
 
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