War in Ukraine

#56,501
#56,501
LouderVol said:
Or you are putting way more emphasis on it than its strategic value. Its value is that is where the Russians have been held for almost 6 months. And again I am not sure why you think Ukraine should give up land after losing lives when Russia has been losing lives to try and take it. The russians could easily try and find a softer target. After 6 months surely they could have found it.

Even if Russia is losing less than Ukraine, after six months that's a lot of resources tied up in this town.
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So the Russians were fighting for 6 months by themselves? If it wasn't as strategically important, then the Ukrainins would have pulled out a long time ago, also. Seems like both sides, for some reason, are adamant about capturing the town.

Again, Zelensky (allegedly), went to a front line town and got a flag signed by the soldiers there and used it as a stage prop in front of Congress. It obviously has some importance/significance.
 
#56,504
#56,504
Rasputin_Vol said:
The only road left open for the Ukrainians to exit is the road coming from the west, and the Russians are moving in to close that off pretty soon. Also, it appears that the Ukrainians have had to move in reinforcements from Kherson and Zaporozhye areas... which has now left an opening for the Russians to start offensives in those areas in the West/Dnepre River. Russians also closing in on Siversk to the northeast of the Bakhmut-Soledar area.

Taking Bakhmut will only leave Kramatorsk and a hand full of other small towns before Donetsk is fully liberated.

If the Ukrainians were smart, they would try to negotiate after Donetsk is mopped up and the Russians clean up in Zaporozhye and Kherson. That keeps the Russians east of the Dneipr and "buys them time". I'm not sure the Russians would trust any ceasefire agreement at this point, but it is their only option right now.
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6 months is a long time for a single town. During that time the Ukraines were able to launch their own offensive, and the Russians apparently had too many resources tied up with Bakhmut to stop the offensive. This is just too much of a case of the boy who cried wolf with you guys and Bakhmut to make me think anything imminent is going to happen.

If it takes Russia six more months to close off the western flank of Bakhmut I would say the Ukrainians have won a huge victory. Not saying it takes that long, but Stalingrad took 9 months of siege before it was liberated. Slavs will absolutely sit there and take a pounding when anyone else would have left.

So I am not ready to call what the Ukrainians should do.

And fwiw its worth, the Ukrainians didnt have to fight to retake Kherson. They were probably counting on fighting and taking some losses. Now afterwards they have more men "leftover" than they were thinking. So I wouldnt count up a redistribution of some of those forces away from Kherson as a total sign of desperation. It could be, but that wouldnt be my first thought.

Fighting around the nuclear power plant should probably be avoided, but who knows. Neither side has gone out of their way to avoid them.
 
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#56,505
#56,505
Rasputin_Vol said:
So the Russians were fighting for 6 months by themselves? If it wasn't as strategically important, then the Ukrainins would have pulled out a long time ago, also. Seems like both sides, for some reason, are adamant about capturing the town.

Again, Zelensky (allegedly), went to a front line town and got a flag signed by the soldiers there and used it as a stage prop in front of Congress. It obviously has some importance/significance.
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I dont see a PR piece as attributing any particular strategic value. Its pretty much the only major fighting going on. Its had some pretty heavy days, but nothing we havent seen previously in the war.

Its Ukrainian territory, or from your side its territory the Ukrainians believe is theirs. And they hold it. That could be all of the strategic value. Idk, maybe their Hinderburg line, actually look up that history before you go all Nazi conspiracy on me, isnt ready yet. Maybe it's their Mannerheim line and they have nothing left behind it. If nothing else they have been able to hold it for 6 months it's either good territory that makes the fight easier or they have said this line and no further step back. But again they have held it, and apparently sense no immediate impending doom from trying to hold that town. There is value in just holding the territory and holding the Russians in place for 6 months.
 
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#56,507
#56,507
Rasputin_Vol said:
What you said was a distortion of what I had said and what the original tweet was saying. We were specifically talking about KIAs. In your feeble attempt to debunk the story, you conflated the KIA number with total casualties.
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No, I literally made the difference clear in the post. You clearly aren't reading what you're replying to, just like you didn't read the story you thought you were citing with that tweet.
 
#56,512
#56,512
FneIZqfWYAARn0S
 
#56,513
#56,513
Ukraine is no different from any other recent media psyop. The narrative doesn't match what is happening in reality, but if you question it you are killing granny...no, wrong psyop...you are an insurrectionist who hates Democracy...no, sorry, that was the other psyop...hold on what was it again...off yeah, you are a Putin puppet, there we go. Read this Putin puppet's propaganda...

 
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#56,514
#56,514
volgr said:
Ukraine is no different from any other recent media psyop. The narrative doesn't match what is happening in reality, but if you question it you are killing granny...no, wrong psyop...you are an insurrectionist who hates Democracy...no, sorry, that was the other psyop...hold on what was it again...off yeah, you are a Putin puppet, there we go. Read this Putin puppet's propaganda...

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Late summer? The narrative with these tanks keeps changing. First it was going to be refurbished tanks in 2024. Then it was brand new tanks with no timetable. Now it is tanks coming this summer?
 
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#56,515
#56,515
#56,517
#56,517
Rasputin_Vol said:
What are they afraid of? Pootin and the second rate Russian army is no match for the 30 countries of NATO.

"Madness": France, Croatia Deny 'West At War With Russia' After German Foreign Minister Sparks Outrage | ZeroHedge


Now this is a lie...
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No it's not. Russia supplied arms to the Iraqis, the afghanis, vietnamese, Koreans, and probably a dozen others we have fought. The US and Russia have only ever been belligerents in 1 war, WW1.

Your threshold for belligerence is really low, but your threshold for war is really high.
 
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#56,518
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