War in Ukraine

[Septic]

So you can't prove the numbers posted by a random Twitter account are correct?

So there's also plenty of reason for people to question the credibility of what is being posted as far as numbers are concerned from that account.

I'll continue questioning whatever I please.

Thank you for the confirmation.

You can do anything you wish - just stop getting so salty when you get your teeth kicked in over and over.

It's hard watching you guys spin so hard, it's dizzying.

 

[Septic]

I would rather you watch it and let us know what you disagree with. That's more fair.

I don't watch guys that work for Russian State Media.

 

[DonjoVol]

You can do anything you wish - just stop getting so salty when you get your teeth kicked in over and over.

It's hard watching you guys spin so hard, it's dizzying.

Just asking questions. Nothing wrong with that right?

And if Galloway is as wrong as you claim then you can let us know what specifically in the video you disagree with. That's a respectable request.

 

[Septic]

Just asking questions. Nothing wrong with that right?

And if Galloway is as wrong as you claim then you can let us know what specifically in the video you disagree with. That's a respectable request.

I didn't claim he was wrong. Are you inventing arguments not being had to try and shift the narrative?

Shame.

I pointed out that he was balls deep into the Russian State Media. Hell, he had his own show on RT.

keep digging tho.

 

[DonjoVol]

I didn't claim he was wrong.

Are you inventing arguments not being had to try and shift the narrative.

I pointed out that he was balls deep into the Russian State Media. Hell, he had his own show on RT.

keep digging tho.

Not shifting the narrative. Asking you specifically what he said that you disagree with. Since you can't provide an answer then I take it your attacking the messenger and not the message. Thank you for letting us know.

 

[Septic]

Not shifting the narrative. Asking you specifically what he said that you disagree with. Since you can't provide an answer then I take it your attacking the messenger and not the message. Thank you for letting us know.

try to keep up.

I didn't attack anyone. I just pooped on your insinuation that he was falsely accused of being a part of the russian state media.

You may feel like you have some sort of high ground with your "Y u aTtAK Th3MeSsaNg3r" grenade. What you fail to understand is that - I don't care. His message is water from a poisoned well. He isn't capable of objectivity because he's a part of the Kremlin run state media. What you may believe are his absolute truths, I wouldn't. His position compromises his integrity fundamentally.

Again, if you'd like to point out his argument - I'll let you know if I agree or not.

 

[DonjoVol]

try to keep up.

I didn't attack anyone. I just pooped on your insinuation that he was falsely accused of being a part of the russian state media.

You may feel like you have some sort of high ground with your "Y u aTtAK Th3MeSsaNg3r" grenade. What you fail to understand is that - I don't care. His message is water from a poisoned well. He isn't capable of objectivity because he's a part of the Kremlin run state media. What you may believe are his absolute truths, I wouldn't. His position compromises his integrity fundamentally.

Again, if you'd like to point out his argument - I'll let you know if I agree or not.

So I was correct. You're attacking the messenger and not the message. If he's as incorrect as you claim then you shouldn't have an issue letting us know what he is actually saying and what exactly you disagree with.

Once again thanks for letting us know.

 

[AM64]

But it was due to *shrug* "some historic fate"

These people are delusional and the country is being brainwashed by a Kremlin run media.

It's hard to imagine that Russians are this stupid to believe this is Putin trying to rid the world of the NATO Nazi's - but here we are.

I noticed an interesting thing about Russia's Wagner Group. The stylized "W" looks like a subtle attempt at cross between a swastika - that little extra wing on the upright - and SS runes. Then I saw these other things. The look suspicious - like maybe Russia has it's own Nazis. You've got the official logo with the four arms radiating from the center, the death's head with four arms and cross bars, and then the outright sawblade swastika.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

How do we even know these numbers are accurate?

I'm sure we will have a tweet of a tractor pulling one of these planes in a few days.

 

[FLVOL_79]

I noticed an interesting thing about Russia's Wagner Group. The stylized "W" looks like a subtle attempt at cross between a swastika - that little extra wing on the upright - and SS runes. Then I saw these other things. The look suspicious - like maybe Russia has it's own Nazis. You've got the official logo with the four arms radiating from the center, the death's head with four arms and cross bars, and then the outright sawblade swastika.

View attachment 533360

View attachment 533361View attachment 533362View attachment 533363

That last one, the "saw blade cross" is the sonnenrad, or sunwheel. 100% being used due to its Nazi appropriation roots.

 

[FLVOL_79]

How do we even know these numbers are accurate?

First off you should message your Russian MoD for the most current propaganda info. If they say nothing was shot down, then the 4 number is 100% accurate.

Secondly, why would you doubt them outside of your blind loyalty to Russia? Russia has zero air superiority. Why? Because they keep getting show the f##k down.

 

[FortSanders]

Trump could not have held the coalition together.

 

[FortSanders]

Can't tell is @Rasputin_Vol is easily hoodwinked by this propaganda or if he knows what it is and is just trying to spread it.

I doubt he is American. In Russia, they pay people like him to present their view point.

 

[Sgt_Nick_Fury]

I noticed an interesting thing about Russia's Wagner Group. The stylized "W" looks like a subtle attempt at cross between a swastika - that little extra wing on the upright - and SS runes. Then I saw these other things. The look suspicious - like maybe Russia has it's own Nazis. You've got the official logo with the four arms radiating from the center, the death's head with four arms and cross bars, and then the outright sawblade swastika.

It doesn't look like a swastika, but it does look Runic. It's not surprising really, Both the German, and Russians or the "Ruse" have Viking ancestry. Military orders in both cultures like to use throwback symbolism for that reason.

With that said before Hitler made it uncool the Soviets absolutely did use the Swastika on their uniforms. It was used by a number of American socialist groups as well before the war.

As you may be able to guess from the Cyrillic writing accompanying it, it was a Soviet Swastika -- used by the Red Army in its early days. It was worn as a shoulder patch by some Soviet troops. The Swastika too was a socialist symbol long before Hitler became influential. Prewar socialists (including some American socialists) used it on the grounds that it has two arms representing two entwined letters "S" (for "Socialist"). So even Hitler's symbolism was Leftist.

{There is an interesting comment on the graphic above by a Russian speaker. He points out that the shoulder patch above was specifically designed for Kalmyk troops. My understanding that the Swastika was more widely used in the Red Army than among the Kalmyk troops alone but I have yet to find a graphic illustrating that. As Stalin would undoubtedly have done his best to erase all references to Soviet swastikas after the Nazi invasion, such a graphic may not be easily found.}​

Hitler did however give the symbol his own twist when in Mein Kampf he said "Als nationale Sozialisten sehen wir in unserer Flagge unser Programm. Im Rot sehen wir den sozialen Gedanken der Bewegung, im Weiss den nationalistischen, im Hakenkreuz die Mission des Kampfes fuer den Sieg des arischen Menschen und zugleich mit ihm auch den Sieg des Gedankens der schaffenden Arbeit" ("As National socialists we see our programme in our flag. In red we see the social thoughts of the movement, in white the nationalist thoughts, in the hooked-cross the mission of fighting for the victory of Aryan man and at the same time the victory of the concept of creative work").

In German, not only the word "Socialism" (Sozialismus) but also the word "Victory" (Sieg) begins with an "S". So he said that the two letters "S" in the hooked-cross (swastika) also stood for the victory of Aryan man and the victory of the idea that the "worker" was a creative force: Nationalism plus socialism again, in other words.

{Technical note: Translating Hitler into English often runs up against the fact that he uses lots of German words that have no exact English equivalent (I comment, for instance, on Volk and Reich here). I have translated "schaffen" above as "create" (as does Ralph Manheim in his widely-used translation of Mein Kampf -- p. 452) but it has the larger meaning of providing and accomplishing things in general. So Hitler was clearly using the word to stress the central importance of the working man. In English, "creative" is often used to refer to artistic activities. That is NOT the meaning of "schaffen"}​

And by Hitler's time, antisemitism in particular, as well as racism in general, already had a long history on the Left. August Bebel was the founder of Germany's Social Democratic party (mainstream Leftists) and his best-known saying is that antisemitism is der Sozialismus des bloeden Mannes (usually translated as "the socialism of fools") -- which implicitly recognized the antisemitism then prevalent on the Left. And Lenin himself alluded to the same phenomenon in saying that "it is not the Jews who are the enemies of the working people" but "the capitalists of all countries." For more on the socialist roots of antisemitism see Tyler Cowen's detailed survey under the heading "The Socialist Roots of Modern Anti-Semitism"

It should be borne in mind, however, that antisemitism was pervasive in Europe of the 19th and early 20th century. Many conservatives were antisemitic too. Leftists were merely the most enthusistic practitioners of it. We have seen how virulent it was in Marx. Antisemitism among conservatives, by contrast, was usually not seen by them as a major concern. British Conservatives made the outspokenly Jewish Benjamin Disraeli their Prime Minister in the 19th century and the man who actually declared war on Hitler -- Neville Chamberlain -- himself had antisemitic views.

And Leftism is notoriously prone to "splits" so there were no doubt some Leftists who disavowed antisemitism on principled grounds. Lenin clearly criticized antisemitism on strategic grounds: It distracted from his class-war objectives. So were there also disinterested objections from Leftists? Such objectors are rather hard to find. The opposition to the persecution of the unfortunate Captain Alfred Dreyfus (who was Jewish) by Emile Zola in France is sometimes quoted but Zola was primarily an advocate of French naturalism, which was a form of physical determinism -- rather at odds with the usual Leftist view of man as a "blank slate". And the man who published Zola's famous challenge to the persecution of Dreyfus was Georges Clemenceau, who is these days most famous for his remark: "If a man is not a socialist in his youth, he has no heart. If he is not a conservative by the time he is 30 he has no head"

But, however you cut it, Hitler's antisemitism was of a piece with his Leftism, not a sign of "Rightism".

One more bit of iconography that may serve to reinforce that point:

[picture link broken, Russian Red Army doing the Nazi-Roman Salute]

The "Roman" salute is generally said to have been invented by Mussolini but Musso was a Marxist who knew Lenin well so it is not surprising that Stalin was influenced by Musso's ideas for a while.

The posters above come via a documentary film called Soviet Story. See here for the photos. The film has had a lot of praise from people who should know and it reinforces much that I say above and below here.

More info here. HITLER WAS A SOCIALIST

 

[Sgt_Nick_Fury]

I think many people have this confusion because they bought into the false history that somehow the Soviets and the Nazi's were polar opposites on some made up political spectrum. The reality is there is a reason they were allies before enemies, National Socialism and International Socialism have little real difference. Hitler even was quoted as saying ex communist's made good Nazis. The differences were even less when you consider that Stalins....version of Communism was extremely nationalist, and extremely pro Russian race.... Putin likewise is more of a nationalist then an internationalist. Their iconography overlap everywhere because their ideology overlaps everywhere.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

I think many people have this confusion because they bought into the false history that somehow the Soviets and the Nazi's were polar opposites on some made up political spectrum. The reality is there is a reason they were allies before enemies, National Socialism and International Socialism have little real difference. Hitler even was quoted as saying ex communist's made good Nazis. The differences were even less when you consider that Stalins....version of Communism was extremely nationalist, and extremely pro Russian race.... Putin likewise is more of a nationalist then an internationalist. Their iconography overlap everywhere because their ideology overlaps everywhere.

Stalin was Georgian, not Russian. Lenin had a mixed ethnic background. Trotsky and several of the early commissars were Jewish.

 

[MontyPython]

This Bud's for you @Rasputin_Vol.

Here's to Ukraine's new tanks blowing your comrades straight to hell.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

After observing the likes of Madeleine Albright, Hillary Clinton, Janet Reno and the like, the US better hope Jong-Un lives a long and healthy life... because this is likely who is waiting in the wings.

 

[volgr]

Maybe they’d rather die on their feet than live on their knees.

Sadly, many of these Ukrainian men, who I would estimate are largely quite conservative in their beliefs and would probably be considered far right if they were American, probably agree more with Russian philosophy than they will with the incoming Western Death Cult Homo regime. When these wives realize their husbands were sacrificed so their kids would have the freedom to choose their gender and have weirdo predators teach them trans ideology in their schools, you think they will be glad they arent Russian?

 

[evillawyer]

Your lads are once again showing their intelligence and their care for each other, @Rasputin_Vol

 

[evillawyer]

Top of the morning to our Putinistas

 

[MG1968]

Sadly, many of these Ukrainian men, who I would estimate are largely quite conservative in their beliefs and would probably be considered far right if they were American, probably agree more with Russian philosophy than they will with the incoming Western Death Cult Homo regime. When these wives realize their husbands were sacrificed so their kids would have the freedom to choose their gender and have weirdo predators teach them trans ideology in their schools, you think they will be glad they arent Russian?

Lol. You guys are really hung up on the “western death cult” trope. And now you’re throwing in homophobia.

 

[evillawyer]

Sadly, many of these Ukrainian men, who I would estimate are largely quite conservative in their beliefs and would probably be considered far right if they were American, probably agree more with Russian philosophy than they will with the incoming Western Death Cult Homo regime. When these wives realize their husbands were sacrificed so their kids would have the freedom to choose their gender and have weirdo predators teach them trans ideology in their schools, you think they will be glad they arent Russian?

Cool story, bro!

 

[evillawyer]

Word

 

[volgr]

Lol. You guys are really hung up on the “western death cult” trope. And now you’re throwing in homophobia.

Homophobia?? Seriously??