War in Ukraine

[Septic]

I voted for Trump in 2020 because I knew the bullsh^t was coming and I didn't want Joe in office. Had things been different, I likely would not have voted at all, much less for Trump. But, if I am put in the same situation again where it is a choice between Biden/Hillary or Putin, I would likely entertain the idea of Putin just as a protest vote. And depending on what the communist guy is talking about, I might entertain that idea, also over Biden. Hell, I might (might) entertain voting for Cynthia McKinney or Dennis Kucinich over Biden.

So... you would vote for pootin?

 

[hndog609]

“Western death cult homos” is the new thing.

About time they got recognition...they opened for the Sex Pistols one tour and then I heard they broke up.

 

[volfanhill]

Anybody got an update on those secret American bio-labs that we were running in Ukraine? I believe the top scientist was a gay American nazi. Figured I would have heard more about them by now

 

[AM64]

I agree tying them down has a value. But we wont know if it was "worth" it until after the war.

In this case however, it's the Ukrainians under siege, and under threat of getting cut off, at some point. And we don't know the relative deployed strength of each force to know if Ukraine is tying down enough Russians to matter.

We have seen Ukraine launch one big offensive while Bakhmut was being fought for. But it didnt change much, we are still where we were essentially. But they havent been able to cut off the guys besieging them. And that's what could make a difference. Again going back ti Stalingrad, the reason it was a big victory for the Russians is that the Germans were not allowed to leave and a huge number got cut off and eventually captured.

To put it in football terms, right now Bakhmut may have been a turnover by the Russians. But it may not have been a pick six in the end zone that was a 14 point swing.

I dont see how the Russians can talk it up as a good thing currently. But also the Ukrainians havent been able to really turn the tables with it.

Right now it really seems to just be a battle.

I honestly haven't spent much time looking into the battle around Bakhmut, but it reminds me a lot of WW1 trench battles in the mud that accomplished little except kill a lot of people. Seems better to extricate and leave the other guys in the mud while you pound them with artillery and live to fight another day with a better strategy and odds of success.

 

[LouderVol]

I honestly haven't spent much time looking into the battle around Bakhmut, but it reminds me a lot of WW1 trench battles in the mud that accomplished little except kill a lot of people. Seems better to extricate and leave the other guys in the mud while you pound them with artillery and live to fight another day with a better strategy and odds of success.

I am not sure what the defensive counter to trench warfare is. The obvious counter is to go on a mechanized attack. But that generally only works one direction, forward. Not sure how Ukraine would be able to turn that defensive. Or if they had air superiority.

 

[AM64]

Eh skulls get used everywhere. And I am pretty sure I have seen the last, pinwheel, motif in previous, notNazi, eastern symbolism.

I was just yanking on some chains. Swastikas are widely used - and the Nazis just appropriated the symbolism. Buddhists and Hindus have used them for ages ... but they arms attached to the cross point the other direction. I've seen many maps where the Buddhist/Hindu swastika marks temples, and it apparently symbolizes good luck. The Nazis simply stole a lot of symbolism whether swastikas, skulls, or ancient runes; unfortunately that's what most people remember. It's just fun to rub in Wagner symbolism to our Russian nationalists here ... since the Russians are the good guys seeking to rid Ukraine of Nazis and corruption and all.

 

[AM64]

Do you know the context as to why he said that? It was because when the USSR broke up, you had all of these ethnic Russians that ended up scattered all over in different countries at the snap of the finger.

Obviously those displaced Russians should have gone home instead of trying to make other places part of Russia. To do otherwise would be to say that Russia WAS the Soviet Union, and apparently this is one of those times you are saying Russia wasn't the Soviet Union. There was an agreement on the Ukrainian/Russian boundary (with detailed maps) signed by the Russians and Ukrainians and ratified/sanctified or whatever by the UN. Russia invaded and crossed the agreed to boundaries ... it's just that simple.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

So... you would vote for pootin?

Under the given conditions I stated above? Yes... or a host of other people.

 

[BowlBrother85]

Under the given conditions I stated above? Yes... or a host of other people.

Just plain nutty.

 

[FLVOL_79]

Lol. A report from 2018 suggesting what the US does in the future proves the US was involved in 2012?

This is why you guys dont post stuff. It doesnt even survive first contact.

You know come to think of it when I was stationed in Iceland we were there to combat Russian aggression which, at the time was a joke (they couldnt afford fuel). That was 2004 so technically according to the local Russian trolls that might have been what started the whole Ukraine thing. But hell, why stop at 2004? Keflavik was opened in 1951 so that possibly could have been the catalyst for Russian aggression against Ukraine. But why stop at 1951? It had to be the Russo-Japanese war where the US supported Japan and Russia suffered a humiliating loss that oddly enough resembles what is happening now to them. Yeah. Thats probably it. Guess what war Ras, Donjo, and Volgr didnt learn about in their gulags re-education camps?

 

[apevol]

You know come to think of it when I was stationed in Iceland we were there to combat Russian aggression which, at the time was a joke (they couldnt afford fuel). That was 2004 so technically according to the local Russian trolls that might have been what started the whole Ukraine thing. But hell, why stop at 2004? Keflavik was opened in 1951 so that possibly could have been the catalyst for Russian aggression against Ukraine. But why stop at 1951? It had to be the Russo-Japanese war where the US supported Japan and Russia suffered a humiliating loss that oddly enough resembles what is happening now to them. Yeah. Thats probably it. Guess what war Ras, Donjo, and Volgr didnt learn about in their gulags re-education camps?

**** sake, you bastard..you started wwiii

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

I honestly haven't spent much time looking into the battle around Bakhmut, but it reminds me a lot of WW1 trench battles in the mud that accomplished little except kill a lot of people. Seems better to extricate and leave the other guys in the mud while you pound them with artillery and live to fight another day with a better strategy and odds of success.

They don't have enough artillery nor do they have enough long range artillery to do what you are suggesting. The Russians outgun them in all facets. But don't take my word for it, look at what someone who was actually there fighting had to say.

Shadow's war: A Canadian veteran describes weeks under fire in Ukraine

Wali, a fellow Van Doo and sniper with combat experience in Afghanistan, was manoeuvring around to get a clean shot at one of the Russian iron monsters with an American-made Javelin anti-armour missile.

The tank had been tantalizingly out of reach before it turned on them and struck.

Shadow was tasked with assisting Wali by carrying ammunition and watching his friend's back. During one Russian assault, the two men were blown out of their sniper's nest by a shell.

"We got hit by a tank," Shadow said. "He shelled the building and missed us by, like, three metres. After that, we started to get more small arms fire, and then we got out of the building, and then after that … a huge firefight.

"I haven't … that was my first firefight. The Russians, they were like 50 metres from us, bullets flying everywhere, everywhere. We couldn't do anything, and they actually tried to surround us."

The last two months for Shadow have been a mad kaleidoscope of firefights and near-misses — nothing like the somewhat tame life he experienced over a dozen years in a Canadian uniform.

After too many close calls, he said, he won't be returning to the eastern front.

"I did my time there. For now, I will do humanitarian aid. I'll just stay here in Lviv and be as useful as I can be."

 

[AM64]

Putin’s Russia is everybody’s problem. The only questions are when and where we confront it.

Seems like a lot of people like to forget a guy named Chamberlain and a word called "appeasement" and where that led. That was just a European problem, too ... until it wasn't; and that was before the age of ICBMs, nuclear warheads, and ships (some underwater types) and planes that can cross oceans to deliver weapons.

 

[Septic]

Under the given conditions I stated above? Yes... or a host of other people.

I asked if you'd vote for pootin or russia's communist option like your friend Comrade Galloway.

You said a bunch of stuff nonsense about Biden, but I heard you say pootin.

 

[AM64]

Anybody got an update on those secret American bio-labs that we were running in Ukraine. I believe the top scientist was a gay American nazi. Figured I would have heard more about them by now

Not sure about those labs in Ukraine ... but there was definitely this one in China that stirred up a bunch of crap.

 

[Septic]

They don't have enough artillery nor do they have enough long range artillery to do what you are suggesting. The Russians outgun them in all facets. But don't take my word for it, look at what someone who was actually there fighting had to say.

Shadow's war: A Canadian veteran describes weeks under fire in Ukraine

Russians are morons. Their army is comprised of vodka soaked slavs and being propped up by Wagner criminals.

If you think anyone is buying your nonsensical ramblings, you're high.

Ukraine isn't perfect. Their leaders are corrupt - but they didn't invade a country under the dumbass guise of gay nazi's.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Seems like a lot of people like to forget a guy named Chamberlain and a word called "appeasement" and where that led. That was just a European problem, too ... until it wasn't; and that was before the age of ICBMs, nuclear warheads, and ships (some underwater types) and planes that can cross oceans to deliver weapons.

Oh stop it. That is the single most used and abused excuse out here. If anything, it is evidence of Britain not being honest brokers and an excuse of using "unconditional surrender" or hardball negotiating tactics. Real diplomacy means that you have to be willing to give a little in order to get a little.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Ukraine isn't perfect. Their leaders are corrupt - but they didn't invade a country under the dumbass guise of gay nazi's.

 

[AM64]

Oh stop it. That is the single most used and abused excuse out here. If anything, it is evidence of Britain not being honest brokers and an excuse of using "unconditional surrender" or hardball negotiating tactics. Real diplomacy means that you have to be willing to give a little in order to get a little.

You saying that if Germany had wanted to take over another country or two - or maybe more, that everybody should have just stepped back and agreed? That national borders aren't so much meaningful boundaries as they are suggestions?

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Seems like a lot of people like to forget a guy named Chamberlain and a word called "appeasement" and where that led. That was just a European problem, too ... until it wasn't; and that was before the age of ICBMs, nuclear warheads, and ships (some underwater types) and planes that can cross oceans to deliver weapons.

Contrary to the fearmongering and popular delusions here in the US, most people around the world, believe it or not, would prefer to live in peace, not war... maybe even engage in commerce and make a few dollars along the way.

If we spent just half of our money building infrastructure here and abroad instead of on F-35s and other MIC expenditures and not tried to regime change every country that may disagree with us on particular issues, we could have built up enough goodwill to not have to worry about missiles coming our way.

 

[AM64]

WTF is a Garland Nixon?

 

[AM64]

Contrary to the fearmongering and popular delusions here in the US, most people around the world, believe it or not, would prefer to live in peace, not war... maybe even engage in commerce and make a few dollars along the way.

If we spent just half of our money building infrastructure here and abroad instead of on F-35s and other MIC expenditures and not tried to regime change every country that may disagree with us on particular issues, we could have built up enough goodwill to not have to worry about missiles coming our way.

Uh huh. We've been spending ourselves broke buying stuff made around the world. I haven't noticed that it brought peace and rainbows. Seems like some folks on the eastern side of Asia have been using those boatloads of cash to build a military. Is that what you mean by buying peace?

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

You saying that if Germany had wanted to take over another country or two - or maybe more, that everybody should have just stepped back and agreed? That national borders aren't so much meaningful boundaries as they are suggestions?

Oh stop with your sanctimonious outrage about sovereign borders. You are very selective about that issue.

And WWII would have never happened had it not been for the Treaty of Versailles. Again, unreasonable surrender terms create blowback. Sudetenland, Danzig, German reparations...

 

[BowlBrother85]

Contrary to the fearmongering and popular delusions here in the US, most people around the world, believe it or not, would prefer to live in peace, not war... maybe even engage in commerce and make a few dollars along the way.

If we spent just half of our money building infrastructure here and abroad instead of on F-35s and other MIC expenditures and not tried to regime change every country that may disagree with us on particular issues, we could have built up enough goodwill to not have to worry about missiles coming our way.

Putin is obviously not one of those people. The war in the Ukraine is his baby ... and he is having to resort to using some half-a-million conscripts. Pathetic.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

WTF is a Garland Nixon?

Someone with a bit more integrity and credibility than the Institute for the Study of War and the Kagan family.