War in Ukraine

[Rasputin_Vol]

Uh huh. We've been spending ourselves broke buying stuff made around the world. I haven't noticed that it brought peace and rainbows. Seems like some folks on the eastern side of Asia have been using those boatloads of cash to build a military. Is that what you mean by buying peace?

Blame you politicians for outsourcing our manufacturing/industrial base. But that doesn't give you license to invade and regime change all over the globe.

 

[AM64]

Oh stop with your sanctimonious outrage about sovereign borders. You are very selective about that issue.

And WWII would have never happened had it not been for the Treaty of Versailles. Again, unreasonable surrender terms create blowback. Sudetenland, Danzig, German reparations...

I won't argue with you about the effects Treat of Versailles. The Brits and the French have both managed to be historically stupid and vindictive at times. The funny thing is I can imagine several people in this thread who in spite of the Marshall Plan and other post war goodwill, would have claimed we should never have spent money to rebuild Germany and Japan.

Still when there is another country with internationally recognized borders, you don't just decide you want it or even a bite here and there.

 

[AM64]

Blame you politicians for outsourcing our manufacturing/industrial base. But that doesn't give you license to invade and regime change all over the globe.

You know me better than that. I do blame politicians and corporate "leaders" for outsourcing our industry, and you know I hold virtually every politician and corporate leader in disrespect. You also know I disagree with pretty much everything we've ever done in the sandboxes. One exemption to that was kicking Iraq out of Kuwait; I still have this thing about one country invading another ... just isn't civil.

 

[Septic]

WTF is a Garland Nixon?

He's the guy that conflates pre-emptive attacks on would be terrorists with attempting to steal land from your neighbor through force.

 

[Septic]

Putin is obviously not one of those people. The war in the Ukraine is his baby ... and he is having to resort to using some half-a-million conscripts. Pathetic.

...and mercenaries', most of which are criminals.

 

[Septic]

Someone with a bit more integrity and credibility than the Institute for the Study of War and the Kagan family.

I was shocked to see this. SHOCKED.



How many other Russian sycophants are you going to trot out and hope we don't notice they aren't Kremlin mouth pieces?

 

[LouderVol]

They don't have enough artillery nor do they have enough long range artillery to do what you are suggesting. The Russians outgun them in all facets. But don't take my word for it, look at what someone who was actually there fighting had to say.

Shadow's war: A Canadian veteran describes weeks under fire in Ukraine

How did he have combat experience, pre-Ukraine, if he was just in his first fire fight?

 

[Orangeslice13]

Putin’s Russia is everybody’s problem. The only questions are when and where we confront it.

BS.
This is England and the EUs problem.
Colombia …..Mexico……our problem.
And while we’re pussyfooting around with Putin, China is on its way to being everyone’s problem.

 

[evillawyer]

Hey @Rasputin_Vol, how many HIMARS have your good Christian lads with strong "no homo" family values taken out?

 

[Septic]

BS.
This is England and the EUs problem.
Colombia …..Mexico……our problem.
And while we’re pussyfooting around with Putin, China is on its way to being everyone’s problem.

It is their problem, but they're our allies and when China issues inevitably kick off - it's a really good thing to have a little solidarity in the proverbial bank.

 

[LouderVol]

Oh stop it. That is the single most used and abused excuse out here. If anything, it is evidence of Britain not being honest brokers and an excuse of using "unconditional surrender" or hardball negotiating tactics. Real diplomacy means that you have to be willing to give a little in order to get a little.

What was Russia willing to give up?

 

[hog88]

It is their problem, but they're our allies and when China issues inevitably kick off - it's a really good thing to have a little solidarity in the proverbial bank.

I wouldn't bet the house on NATO/European help if things kick off with China.

 

[LouderVol]

Oh stop with your sanctimonious outrage about sovereign borders. You are very selective about that issue.

And WWII would have never happened had it not been for the Treaty of Versailles. Again, unreasonable surrender terms create blowback. Sudetenland, Danzig, German reparations...

And what unreasonable treaty lead to Russia invading Ukraine?

 

[LouderVol]

BS.
This is England and the EUs problem.
Colombia …..Mexico……our problem.
And while we’re pussyfooting around with Putin, China is on its way to being everyone’s problem.

I dont see how Russia isnt our problem but China is.

 

[BowlBrother85]

Someone with a bit more integrity and credibility than the Institute for the Study of War and the Kagan family.

Are you serious with this?

Garland Nixon works for Sputnik Radio. That is a Russian state-run media outlet. Why are you so heavily invested in posting Russian propaganda on here? It is bizarre.

Russia to Broadcast State-Run Sputnik Radio on Banned Liberal Station’s Frequency - The Moscow Times

 

[Septic]

Are you serious with this?

Garland Nixon works for Radio Sputnik. That is a Russian state-run media outlet. Why are you so heavily invested in posting Russian propaganda on here? It is bizarre.

Russia to Broadcast State-Run Sputnik Radio on Banned Liberal Station’s Frequency - The Moscow Times

He's a moskal.

He pretends to be an American, but he can't help himself.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Still when there is another country with internationally recognized borders, you don't just decide you want it or even a bite here and there.

The Russians didn't go in with the intentions of grabbing land when the coup was orchestrated in 2014. The hopes were that Minsk ceasefire agreements would be implemented and that the people of Donbas would be able to live in peace. But after 8 years and 14-15k killed (along with NATO building a proxy army in Kyiv), the only way to get the people saved was to go in and gain control.

 

[VolStrom]

Hey @Rasputin_Vol, how many HIMARS have your good Christian lads with strong "no homo" family values taken out?

Lol, I haven't seen that used in a post in a while. Used to be a regular comment 10 years or so ago.

 

[tvolsfan]

BS.
This is England and the EUs problem.
Colombia …..Mexico……our problem.

That’s sounds like some 19th century sphere of influence bull****.

 

[tvolsfan]

I wouldn't bet the house on NATO/European help if things kick off with China.

Certainly not if we let Russia pick apart Eastern Europe.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

You know me better than that. I do blame politicians and corporate "leaders" for outsourcing our industry, and you know I hold virtually every politician and corporate leader in disrespect. You also know I disagree with pretty much everything we've ever done in the sandboxes. One exemption to that was kicking Iraq out of Kuwait; I still have this thing about one country invading another ... just isn't civil.

Again, selective outrage. When Turkey did it in 1974, Israel does it continually and the US does it in Serbia, Libya, Iraq (2003), Syria, etc... I don't see that same level of pushback. Like I don't see that same leel of outrage from the KSA in Yemen or the USA in NE Syria right now. But Russia Russia Russia.

When the US and Israel and a select few do it, no problemo.

 

[tvolsfan]

Again, selective outrage. When Turkey did it in 1974, Israel does it continually and the US does it in Serbia, Libya, Iraq (2003), Syria, etc... I don't see that same level of pushback. Like I don't see that same leel of outrage from the KSA in Yemen or the USA in NE Syria right now. But Russia Russia Russia.

When the US and Israel and a select few do it, no problemo.

What about…

 

[tvolsfan]

What was Russia willing to give up?

I want an answer to this.

 

[hog88]

Certainly not if we let Russia pick apart Eastern Europe.

Europe should be able to handle Russia on their own plus Russia hasn't attacked a NATO nation.

 

[LouderVol]

The Russians didn't go in with the intentions of grabbing land when the coup was orchestrated in 2014. The hopes were that Minsk ceasefire agreements would be implemented and that the people of Donbas would be able to live in peace. But after 8 years and 14-15k killed (along with NATO building a proxy army in Kyiv), the only way to get the people saved was to go in and gain control.

Crimea says otherwise.

Dont remember there being any fighting to save the local ethnic Russians from.

And what was NATO going to do with this proxy army? Invade Russia? Or was Ukraine just going to use it to protect their own borders? Seems like they were awfully justified in wanting an army.