War in Ukraine

#56,853
#56,853
Picking the hooker with less venereal diseases....that's Russia or Ukraine.

I have no love for either Putin or Zelensky. I do fear our involvement will escalate and they need to draft the folks with the Ukrainian flag on their social media first.
 
#56,856
#56,856
utvolpj said:
These are people with zero chance in life yet you mock and celebrate their death. Second time in an hour you've shown to be a terrible human being
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Him along with RasputinVol They literally celebrate death. I bet he popped popcorn before he watched the Tyre Nichols murder.
 
#56,859
#56,859
Sgt_Nick_Fury said:
Nationalist vs Internationalist Socialism for the most part. The state also ran the economy in both but with national socialism made teh PRETENSE of having private companies, (so long as they were manned by ideology die hards, and did exactly what the state told them to at all times) Both systems were spawn of Karl Marx's ideas and desire to destroy western civilization and rebuild some organized crime utopia.

In reality there was not even that much difference. The Soviets were never really internationalists that was a lie to sell would be vassel like communist states on the Soviet plan. The reality is the Soviets and Stalin especially were absolutely nationalist, complete with believing they were a genetically superior race, incredible anti-Semitic culture only slightly better then the Nazi's and because of the Intelligence community basically acting like the black market, and mob in the economy it was just as fascist in practice.

Both are not much more then Dark Ages Serfdom, with post industrial catch phrases plastered on. In both you become serfs to the ideological elite, who don't really beleive in the ideology much themselves. The ideology is merely a license to tyrant and a way to divide the people by race or class so you can more easily subjugate them.
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I'll go ahead and disagree with you that Stalin thought the Russian race was superior in any way and that his regime was anti-Semitic. I'm honestly not sure where that talking point is coming from or the basis behind it.

However I will agree that the Soviet Union was as nationalist or even maybe slightly more than both Hitler and Mussolini.
 
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#56,860
#56,860
Rasputin_Vol said:
The Russians didn't go in with the intentions of grabbing land when the coup was orchestrated in 2014. The hopes were that Minsk ceasefire agreements would be implemented and that the people of Donbas would be able to live in peace. But after 8 years and 14-15k killed (along with NATO building a proxy army in Kyiv), the only way to get the people saved was to go in and gain control.
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Tell us more about this proxy Army that NATO built in Ukraine. When Russia invaded, it sure seems like I remember people fighting back with Molotov cocktails more than with NATO weaponry. Somehow we must have missed the big appropriations bills for weapons back then. And the more amazing part is that Ukraine's high tech stuff early on seemed limited to leftover Soviet aircraft, air defenses, and small arms - then later the tanks that the retreating Russians left.
 
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#56,864
#56,864
volgr said:
China isnt wrong either...
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That’s absolutely stupid as hell Larry.

Russia invades Ukraine, breaking their treaty.

The US adheres to their commitment and provides lethal aid to Ukraine so they can defend themselves

Russia’s idiot buddies: WhY iS tHe US eScAlAtiNg tHiS cOnFlIcT?!

Absolutely dumb as hell.
 
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#56,866
#56,866
AM64 said:
Tell us more about this proxy Army that NATO built in Ukraine. When Russia invaded, it sure seems like I remember people fighting back with Molotov cocktails more than with NATO weaponry. Somehow we must have missed the big appropriations bills for weapons back then. And the more amazing part is that Ukraine's high tech stuff early on seemed limited to leftover Soviet aircraft, air defenses, and small arms - then later the tanks that the retreating Russians left.
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It was obviously built after the 2014 coup. I never suggested the army was built under Yanukovych. But the State Department and NGOs on the ground did organize protesters/colour revolution.
 
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#56,869
#56,869
Rasputin_Vol said:
It was obviously built after the 2014 coup. I never suggested the army was built under Yanukovych. But the State Department and NGOs on the ground did organize protesters/colour revolution.
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So in other words there's nothing to show that NATO did anything to build a proxy Ukrainian army until sometime after Russia had overstayed it's three day special operation and demolished chunks of Kiev.
 
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#56,870
#56,870
AM64 said:
So in other words there's nothing to show that NATO did anything to build a proxy Ukrainian army until sometime after Russia had overstayed it's three day special operation and demolished chunks of Kiev.
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What? Are you gaslighting right now? Of course they armed the Kyiv regime after the coup in 2014. Why are you suddenly moving the timeline to Feb 24th, 2022?
 
#56,872
#56,872
AM64 said:
So in other words there's nothing to show that NATO did anything to build a proxy Ukrainian army until sometime after Russia had overstayed it's three day special operation and demolished chunks of Kiev.
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Trump admin approves new sale of anti-tank weapons to Ukraine

Congress bans arms to Ukraine militia linked to neo-Nazis
House-passed spending bills for the past three years have included a ban on U.S. aid to Ukraine from going to the Azov Battalion, but the provision was stripped out before final passage each year.
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Minsk deal was used to buy time – Ukraine's Poroshenko

Petro Poroshenko has admitted that the 2015 ceasefire in Donbass, which he negotiated with Russia, France and Germany as president of Ukraine, was merely a distraction intended to buy time for Kiev to rebuild its military.
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Angela Merkel says she lost influence over Putin as a lame duck leader

Key points of the Minsk peace talks, including disarmament and supervision by an international body, were never followed through. But Merkel said the agreement had nevertheless helped buy Kyiv time to arm itself better against the Russian military.
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#56,873
#56,873
Rasputin_Vol said:
What? Are you gaslighting right now? Of course they armed the Kyiv regime after the coup in 2014. Why are you suddenly moving the timeline to Feb 24th, 2022?
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NATO countries gave limited military aid to Ukraine after 2014; then there was a significant increase last year after Russia invaded Ukraine. You know the 2014 key was that Russia annexed Crimea - the handwriting was on the wall so to speak. But other than your comment, there seems to be nothing backing up that NATO built Ukraine a proxy Army. I don't know for sure, but the message seems to be "don't invade your neighbors and other countries won't feel compelled to give them military aid". NATO was acting "like a good neighbor" when mayhem came to nearby Ukrainian town.
 
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#56,874
#56,874
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#56,875
#56,875
AM64 said:
NATO countries gave limited military aid to Ukraine after 2014; then there was a significant increase last year after Russia invaded Ukraine. You know the 2014 key was that Russia annexed Crimea - the handwriting was on the wall so to speak. But other than your comment, there seems to be nothing backing up that NATO built Ukraine a proxy Army. I don't know for sure, but the message seems to be "don't invade your neighbors and other countries won't feel compelled to give them military aid". NATO was acting "like a good neighbor" when mayhem came to nearby Ukrainian town.
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They gave weapons and NATO training. They had a training center in Western Ukraine near Lviv and the US by itself had spending bills dedicated to building the Ukraine army. You call it "limited" in comparison to what we are sending now because the $100+ billion sent in the past year dwarfs tremendously what was given in the previous years. No doubt $100+ billion is going to look to be "significant" in comparison. But that doesn't mean you can diminish the aid given prior to that.
 
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