War in Ukraine

#56,879
#56,879
Rasputin_Vol said:
They gave weapons and NATO training. They had a training center in Western Ukraine near Lviv and the US by itself had spending bills dedicated to building the Ukraine army. You call it "limited" in comparison to what we are sending now because the $100+ billion sent in the past year dwarfs tremendously what was given in the previous years. No doubt $100+ billion is going to look to be "significant" in comparison. But that doesn't mean you can diminish the aid given prior to that.
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Lol, from 2014-2021, we gave Ukraine about $2.5 billion total, which is next to nothing in terms of material aid considering the costs of NATO weapon systems.
 
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#56,881
#56,881
BeardedVol said:
Lol, from 2014-2021, we gave Ukraine about $2.5 billion total, which is next to nothing in terms of material aid considering the costs of NATO weapon systems.
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That's 2.5 billion that should have been spent here on Americans that actually need help. Do you and your political party really care about Ukraine more than your own country?
 
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#56,882
#56,882
rekinhavoc said:
US to buy new Abrams tanks for Ukraine because military has no spares, Pentagon says

"Pentagon officials have said it will be several months before Ukraine receives the American battle tanks. Some experts have speculated Ukraine might not see them until late 2023 or early 2024."
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I did not read the article. But the likely reason is the one me and others tried telling certain people in here a few weeks ago. They don't have the personnel who knows how to operate and maintain the equipment. Plus each tank needs a crew. And in order to have an efficient crew you need people on those crews with years of experience. These aren't VW Rabbits they are receiving. They need more than "just a few weeks" of training.
 
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#56,883
#56,883
rekinhavoc said:
US to buy new Abrams tanks for Ukraine because military has no spares, Pentagon says

"Pentagon officials have said it will be several months before Ukraine receives the American battle tanks. Some experts have speculated Ukraine might not see them until late 2023 or early 2024."
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“We just don’t have these tanks available in excess in our U.S. stocks,” she told reporters at the Pentagon.
Yeah she, like the rest of the Biden administration, is full of sh!t. The US has almost 4000 M1A1/2's in reserve. And unlike Russia, while they are in reserve the US still maintains them (civilian contractors). I'll assume she means they don't have 31 immediately ready with classified weapon systems removed.

Fun fact the US has only ever lost a handful of US fielded M1's in battle over the past 40+ years. Another fun fact, most destroyed M1's were facilitated by the US after we deemed them to damaged to salvage. These are facts that keep Ras, Donjo, and Volgr up at night..just like HIMARS.
 
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#56,885
#56,885
Rasputin_Vol said:
Stalin was Georgian, not Russian. Lenin had a mixed ethnic background. Trotsky and several of the early commissars were Jewish.
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Hitler was part Jewish, but that didn't stop him from using them as a scapegoat. Using the ideology for political purpose and believing in it it yourself have nothing to do with each other.
 
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#56,886
#56,886
evillawyer said:
It's like @Rasputin_Vol made it. Pretty much had all of his talking points, which just shows that all his talking points are Russian propaganda.

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I am sure our veterans never came across Russian equipment or arms in Iraq and Afghanistan. Those were all Chinese AK-47s and night vision goggles.
Their propaganda game sucks.
 
#56,887
#56,887
DonjoVol said:
I'll go ahead and disagree with you that Stalin thought the Russian race was superior in any way and that his regime was anti-Semitic. I'm honestly not sure where that talking point is coming from or the basis behind it.

However I will agree that the Soviet Union was as nationalist or even maybe slightly more than both Hitler and Mussolini.
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Of course your unaware, because A) you haven't read their histories or B) you read their edited histories.
1) One of the first works promoting anti Semitism with socialist politics was written by Karl Marx himself. Marx was Jewish but had severe anti-daddy issues, and his father was a Rabbi. Many of the early anti Jewish publications were written by Athiest Jews critical of the Jewish religion.

Karl Marx's Radical Antisemitism - The Philosophers' Magazine

2) On Stalin: " In 1939, he reversed Communist policy and began a cooperation with Nazi Germany that included the removal of high profile Jews from the Kremlin. As dictator of the Soviet Union, he promoted repressive policies that conspicuously impacted Jews shortly after World War II, especially during the anti-cosmopolitan campaign. At the time of his death, Stalin was planning an even larger campaign against Jews. According to his successor Nikita Khrushchev, Stalin was fomenting the doctors' plot as a pretext for further anti-Jewish repressions. "
3) Natan Shiranski on harrassment of Jews in Soviet Union known as "Refuseniks" this was widespread and targeted any Jews who wanted to support or emigrate to Israel. Not only were they barred the ability to travel, but were often tortured and killed.
4) Before Hitler started on his master race theories, the Soviets already were talking about their "New Man theories" and it focused hard on Eugenics just as Fabian socialism did in the UK, and American socialists like Margaret Sanger focused on Eugenics in the USA. To say it didn't include blatant racism is a bold face lie.

The Concept of the 'New Soviet Man' As a Eugenic Project: Eugenics in Soviet Russia after World War II | ETHICS IN PROGRESS

If you were unaware of these very common known points in Soviet Union history what else might you have missed?
 
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#56,891
#56,891
DonjoVol said:
I've stated multiple times on this forum that we need to stop giving money to other countries and use it here at home. You were talking about Ukraine so that's what I responded about.
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Cool. Welcome to representative democracy, where you don't get a personal say in how every tax dollar collected by the government is spent.

If you'd taken 3rd grade social studies in the United States, it would have saved you some grief.

Back on topic, though ~$312 million/year is not enough to train and equip an army to NATO standards.

So pretending that NATO bult an army in Ukraine from 2014-2022 is a ridiculous position for @Rasputin_Vol to try and maintain.
 
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#56,892
#56,892
BeardedVol said:
Cool. Welcome to representative democracy, where you don't get a personal say in how every tax dollar collected by the government is spent.

If you'd taken 3rd grade social studies in the United States, it would have saved you some grief.

Back on topic, though ~$312 million/year is not enough to train and equip an army to NATO standards.

So pretending that NATO bult an army in Ukraine from 2014-2022 is a ridiculous position for @Rasputin_Vol to try and maintain.
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I would be okay with some of our money being spent in foreign countries if the situation in most of these countries actually improved. However the situations hardly ever improve due to our involvement not only financially but militarily.

This is also a reason I don't take your political party and their followers seriously. You party masquerades as helpers but in reality they are frauds and they have always been. They have honestly never been interested in helping the American people.

That 312 million you mentioned still could have been spent in this country.
 
#56,893
#56,893
DonjoVol said:
I've stated multiple times on this forum that we need to stop giving money to other countries and use it here at home. You were talking about Ukraine so that's what I responded about.
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You realize that monetary aid is fungible, right? Sending money and equipment to Ukraine or Ethiopia doesn't deprive the homeless or down trodden here in the U.S. It makes for a good talking point until you scratch the surface - but the money doesn't exist in a vacuum. Our country has been living on credit for years, pretending that sending Ukraine equipment is going to deprive a poor child from eating is nonsense.
 
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#56,895
#56,895
volfanhill said:
Good god can you use non ass hats? The pizza gate guy? Stop
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Nice example of a non-rebuttal reply with nothing but an attempt to assassinate the character of the messenger.

Did the pizza gate guy deep fake the video?

Unbelievable, these Ukraine trolls are getting worse in this thread since the many months ago when I visited frequently and I didnt think it could get worse than Dallas and Septic.
 
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#56,896
#56,896
volgr said:
Why are some of you still arguing over who was the initial aggressor? It doesnt matter. Using the US's own broad use of self defense doctrine, Russia was well within it's right to initiate a special military operation against Ukraine.
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Also Russia's definition too. Finland 1940, the Crimean War in the 1850s, the various partitions of Poland. Russian involvement in the Napelonic wars. The sino russian wars, their occupation of Manchuria.
 
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#56,898
#56,898
DonjoVol said:
I would be okay with some of our money being spent in foreign countries if the situation in most of these countries actually improved. However the situations hardly ever improve due to our involvement not only financially but militarily.

This is also a reason I don't take your political party and their followers seriously. You party masquerades as helpers but in reality they are frauds and they have always been. They have honestly never been interested in helping the American people.

That 312 million you mentioned still could have been spent in this country.
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Lol, what does me being a registered independent have to do with how representative democracy works in the United States?

Back on topic, though you claim to shed a tear over every dollar the government spends outside of the United States, ~$312 million/year is still a miniscule amount in terms of military aid.
 
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#56,899
#56,899
BeardedVol said:
Cool. Welcome to representative democracy, where you don't get a personal say in how every tax dollar collected by the government is spent.

If you'd taken 3rd grade social studies in the United States, it would have saved you some grief.

Back on topic, though ~$312 million/year is not enough to train and equip an army to NATO standards.

So pretending that NATO bult an army in Ukraine from 2014-2022 is a ridiculous position for @Rasputin_Vol to try and maintain.
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NATO largely built and trained their military. NATO largely runs the Ukrainian war effort today. Because they dont have the quality and quantity of arms most Western Death Cult Nations have, doesnt mean we dont largely arm/train them. Ukraine was/is a poor corrupt sh1thole, what means did they have to build a western type force?
 
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#56,900
#56,900
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