War in Ukraine

#56,901
#56,901
volgr said:
NATO largely built and trained their military. NATO largely runs the Ukrainian war effort today. Because they dont have the quality and quantity of arms most Western Death Cult Nations have, doesnt mean we dont largely arm/train them. Ukraine was/is a poor corrupt sh1thole, what means did they have to build a western type force?
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Lol, no.

NATO taught Ukraine the basics of 'combined arms' theory and application, and how to restructure their armed forces to create an NCO corps, and then gave them some portable anti-tank weapons.

That's what ~$312 million/year gets you, which is why Ukraine still fields Soviet tanks and aircraft, rather than NATO-standard weapon systems.

The sad reality for Russia is that they can't overcome a Ukrainian army, with less of the same weapon systems that they themselves employ.
 
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#56,902
#56,902
Pepe_Silvia said:
No way this is true. We were assured that the equipment we were sending to Ukraine was old or excess.
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I doubt these M1s will have the Chobbam armor and advanced targeting systems. Hell, they may not even have jet turbine engines. They’ll be M1 in name and appearance only but in reality will be M60s. Unless the Biden administration does what it does best and completely ****s this up.
 
#56,904
#56,904
MG1968 said:
I doubt these M1s will have the Chobbam armor and advanced targeting systems. Hell, they may not even have jet turbine engines. They’ll be M1 in name and appearance only but in reality will be M60s. Unless the Biden administration does what it does best and completely ****s this up.
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They are sending M1A2s but without the new armor package as I understand it.

We run about 900 total, with a quarter of them being newly-built and the rest upgraded M1A1s.
 
#56,905
#56,905
BeardedVol said:
Lol, what does me being a registered independent have to do with how representative democracy works in the United States?

Back on topic, though you claim to shed a tear over every dollar the government spends outside of the United States, ~$312 million/year is still a miniscule amount in terms of military aid.
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Lol. Registered independent? Yeah right. You, BB85 and EL are exactly the same.
 
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#56,906
#56,906
DonjoVol said:
Lol. Registered independent? Yeah right. You, BB85 and EL are exactly the same.
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My lack of political party affiliation is irrelevant to how representative democracy works I'm the United States.

You'd know this if you'd taken a few US civics courses in your childhood education.
 
#56,907
#56,907
BeardedVol said:
My lack of political party affiliation is irrelevant to how representative democracy works I'm the United States.

You'd know this if you'd taken a few US civics courses in your childhood education.
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Lol. This has nothing to do with "US Civics courses". I'm calling out the fact that our government with the help of certain elected officials are wasting too much American taxpayer dollars. Much of which goes to foreign nations as "aid'. We have problems here at home that need to be addressed first.
 
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#56,908
#56,908
Orangeslice13 said:
Russia isn’t coming for us. China might be.
I’m all for being prepared to defend ourselves.
I’m not ok with being the world’s police force anymore.
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Why wouldnt Russia be coming for us, but China might? China has the same limitations as Russia. An even longer distance to go. Chinas economy is tied to ours much more than Russia's is. We have very similar entangling alliances with the nations that China would be going after.
 
#56,909
#56,909
DonjoVol said:
Lol. This has nothing to do with "US Civics courses". I'm calling out the fact that our government with the help of certain elected officials are wasting too much American taxpayer dollars. Much of which goes to foreign nations as "aid'. We have problems here at home that need to be addressed first.
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If China decides to invade eastern Russia and the U.S. decides it’s in our best interests to help Russia, would you begrudge the money and material sent?

Hypothetically speaking, of course. We all know China has no such ambitions.
 
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#56,910
#56,910
DonjoVol said:
Lol. This has nothing to do with "US Civics courses". I'm calling out the fact that our government with the help of certain elected officials are wasting too much American taxpayer dollars. Much of which goes to foreign nations as "aid'. We have problems here at home that need to be addressed first.
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You're welcome to hold that opinion, and contact your representatives to notify them of the tears that you shed for every federal dollar spent outside of the United States.
 
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#56,912
#56,912
Rasputin_Vol said:
It was obviously built after the 2014 coup. I never suggested the army was built under Yanukovych. But the State Department and NGOs on the ground did organize protesters/colour revolution.
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The same NGOs the US gave 11 billion in Russia to get Putin elected in 1999? Or different NGOs, because that realization makes you uncomfortable?
 
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#56,913
#56,913
Pepe_Silvia said:
No way this is true. We were assured that the equipment we were sending to Ukraine was old or excess.
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The story changed at least twice. First I remember hearing was that it was going to be retired/refurbished tanks that would take a year to get ready. Then it was Going to be tanks coming by this summer. Then it was new tanks coming next year. The likely truth is that the US won't be sending diddlysquat. It was all just a head fake to make Germany dig deeper into this conflict and solidify the permanent divorce of Germany from Russia... and to destroy German economy in the process.

NATO's original objectives:

Keep America in.
Keep Russia out.
Keep Germany down.
 
#56,916
#56,916
MG1968 said:
I doubt these M1s will have the Chobbam armor and advanced targeting systems. Hell, they may not even have jet turbine engines. They’ll be M1 in name and appearance only but in reality will be M60s. Unless the Biden administration does what it does best and completely ****s this up.
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Odds on ****ing it up and Putin gets his hands on our advanced tech?
 
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#56,918
#56,918
Rasputin_Vol said:


Trump admin approves new sale of anti-tank weapons to Ukraine

Congress bans arms to Ukraine militia linked to neo-Nazis


Minsk deal was used to buy time – Ukraine's Poroshenko



Angela Merkel says she lost influence over Putin as a lame duck leader
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I dont know why you keep bringing up that the ceasefire allowed Ukraine to rearm, or really arm up in the first place, as some sort of nefarious thing? That's all ceasefires, that's all ceasefires are used for. The Russians were also using that time to prepare a fricking full scale invasion, so they were also obviously using it as pretext to buy time.

Ceasefires allow BOTH sides, to rest, rearm, reorganize, and plan. Putin would have be the dumbest guy on the planet to think the Ukrainians were just going to sit exactly as they were for the life of the ceasefire. He sure as heck wasnt doing that.

I love that you guys are still trying to make the aggressor the victim here. You have the perfect domestic abuse victim mindset. "Its my fault he hit me, I tried to defend myself from him beating me, so he had no choice but to beat me."
 
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#56,919
#56,919
volgr said:
NATO largely built and trained their military. NATO largely runs the Ukrainian war effort today. Because they dont have the quality and quantity of arms most Western Death Cult Nations have, doesnt mean we dont largely arm/train them. Ukraine was/is a poor corrupt sh1thole, what means did they have to build a western type force?
Click to expand...
We trained up their special forces to NATO levels. And they were equipped as such.but that's hardly the army. I doubt even 10k got trained and equipped.

Your average Ivan in the ranks was much more likely to have an early AK, than one of our service rifles. Yet alone get any type of training or advanced systems our infantry has access to.
 
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#56,921
#56,921
LouderVol said:
Why wouldnt Russia be coming for us, but China might? China has the same limitations as Russia. An even longer distance to go. Chinas economy is tied to ours much more than Russia's is. We have very similar entangling alliances with the nations that China would be going after.
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Russia is bankrupt. they are not capable of being our enemy
We should keep an eye on them just like we do everyone else. China on the other hand is itching for a fight. Their military is anyway. I agree that it’s not smart but that’s what they’re doing and therefore we should be ready to defend ourselves against whoever. We should stop trying to be the world’s police force.
this dust up between Russia and the Ukraine is still none of our concern.
 
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#56,925
#56,925
FnyZ7H5XoAIus_e
 
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