War in Ukraine

#58,976
#58,976
DonjoVol said:
Lol. Only person that got triggered was you when someone shared that video of your emperor obviously high on cocaine. You've been embarrassing yourself more since then.
Click to expand...
Oh yeah I remember that video! I commented that at least your fellow idiot propagandists didn’t leave copies of the Sim games around that time instead of SIM cards.

HAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! 😂

The written record tells the tale Komrade Curly 🤡
 
  • Like
Reactions: BeardedVol
#58,978
#58,978
Burhead said:
And giving concessions to avoid conflict makes the next war even bigger. The world did nothing when Germany went into the Rhineland, didn't lift a finger at Anschluss, and negotiated away Czechoslovakia's sovereignty and it still didn't avert a war. Same thing happened in Georgia in 2008 and Crimea in 2014 and now we're left in a larger war thanks to inaction then.
Click to expand...
The west should have come down hard in 2014 on the Crimea land grab. It was all justified due to access to Sevastopol which just emboldened the short bastard into grabbing more because he saw he could get away with it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AM64, norrislakevol and BeardedVol
#58,979
#58,979
NorthDallas40 said:
The west should have come down hard in 2014 on the Crimea land grab. It was all justified due to access to Sevastopol which just emboldened the short bastard into grabbing more because he saw he could get away with it.
Click to expand...

I'm willing to concede at bit on Crimea but as soon as the uprisings in the east started we should have started transferring/selling arms then. We could have had an eight year head start on reequipping Ukrainian forces but we wasted that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AM64
#58,980
#58,980
NorthDallas40 said:
The west should have come down hard in 2014 on the Crimea land grab. It was all justified due to access to Sevastopol which just emboldened the short bastard into grabbing more because he saw he could get away with it.
Click to expand...

Russia should have been hit with this level of sanctions when they invaded Georgia in 2008.

When they got away with that, it only emboldened them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AM64, norrislakevol, NorthDallas40 and 1 other person
#58,981
#58,981
Burhead said:
I'm willing to concede at bit on Crimea but as soon as the uprisings in the east started we should have started transferring/selling arms then. We could have had an eight year head start on reequipping Ukrainian forces but we wasted that.
Click to expand...
Honestly that was up to Ukraine also. But when it happened I was also in the camp of it being expected due to the importance of that singular deep warm water port. When Ukraine was initially formed and the port for gas deal was setup it just seemed ill formed from the get go. It’s all fine… unless you get a hardliner expansionist despot in power that starts nibbling away at sovereign land. The world should have came down with a sledgehammer in 2014, forced a territorial reset, and told Ukraine in the back room to figure it out ASAP
 
#58,982
#58,982
Burhead said:
And giving concessions to avoid conflict makes the next war even bigger. The world did nothing when Germany went into the Rhineland, didn't lift a finger at Anschluss, and negotiated away Czechoslovakia's sovereignty and it still didn't avert a war. Same thing happened in Georgia in 2008 and Crimea in 2014 and now we're left in a larger war thanks to inaction then.
Click to expand...
I am not saying to do nothing. I am saying to try and become an honest broker to advance a peaceful settlement. Each side has to give up something and be allowed to save face. Basic outline would be that Russia evacuates Donbas and foregoes any future territorial claims. In response, Ukraine agrees that the Donbas is to be a demilitarized zone but with international guarantees of its integrity as part of Ukraine. Ukraine agrees to not seek nor accept membership in NATO. Crimea is to hold an internationally monitored plebiscite to decide its future and both sides agree to accept the results. Regardless of outcome, Russia would be allowed to take out a long term lease for the territory for their Naval Base for the Black Sea fleet.
 
#58,985
#58,985
OrangeTsar said:
I am not saying to do nothing. I am saying to try and become an honest broker to advance a peaceful settlement. Each side has to give up something and be allowed to save face.
Click to expand...
Putin believes most, if not all of Ukraine belongs to Russia. How do you negotiate with that? Give it to him piece by piece in installments?
 
  • Like
Reactions: InVOLuntary, AM64, norrislakevol and 2 others
#58,986
#58,986
OrangeTsar said:
I am not saying to do nothing. I am saying to try and become an honest broker to advance a peaceful settlement. Each side has to give up something and be allowed to save face. Basic outline would be that Russia evacuates Donbas and foregoes any future territorial claims. In response, Ukraine agrees that the Donbas is to be a demilitarized zone but with international guarantees of its integrity as part of Ukraine. Ukraine agrees to not seek nor accept membership in NATO. Crimea is to hold an internationally monitored plebiscite to decide its future and both sides agree to accept the results. Regardless of outcome, Russia would be allowed to take out a long term lease for the territory for their Naval Base for the Black Sea fleet.
Click to expand...
So now you pivot to dictating reset terms to the bald dwarf from which a path forward will be negotiated. How do you respond when he says no and if you press me I’ll nuke your ass? The little idiot has already used the nuke threat multiple times.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AM64 and BeardedVol
#58,987
#58,987
OrangeTsar said:
I am not saying to do nothing. I am saying to try and become an honest broker to advance a peaceful settlement. Each side has to give up something and be allowed to save face. Basic outline would be that Russia evacuates Donbas and foregoes any future territorial claims. In response, Ukraine agrees that the Donbas is to be a demilitarized zone but with international guarantees of its integrity as part of Ukraine. Ukraine agrees to not seek nor accept membership in NATO. Crimea is to hold an internationally monitored plebiscite to decide its future and both sides agree to accept the results. Regardless of outcome, Russia would be allowed to take out a long term lease for the territory for their Naval Base for the Black Sea fleet.
Click to expand...

There is nothing in your proposed peace settlement that Russia gives up but expects Ukraine to give up everything.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AM64
#58,990
#58,990
OrangeTsar said:
Well then, I guess we are doomed
Click to expand...

Here is a peace settlement that is realistic:

1. Russia ends the war and pays the costs for reconstruction
2. Any Russian commander or soldier who committed war crimes is turned over to the Hague.
3. Russia ends it support of the DNR/LNR separatist regions and allows for their dissolution and reintegrate those regions back into Ukraine but with a form of limited autonomy by the regional governments.
4. Anyone in those areas that wish to remain with Russia is allowed to leave and Ukraine agrees to grant a pardon to anyone that stays.
5. Ukraine agrees to recognize Crimea is apart of Russia and forgoes any territorial claims to it.
6. A DMZ is created and monitored by international peacekeepers through the entirety of the Russian/Ukrainian border and the Belarusian/Ukrainian border.
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top