War in Ukraine

#601
#601
Ukraine isn't the end game, it's the catalyst. How this plays out will determine how far the next step goes. There is a lot more riding on this, chess is a game that requires forethought many moves in advance.
 
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#602
#602
KB5252 said:
Ukraine isn't the end game, it's the catalyst. How this plays out will determine how far the next step goes. There is a lot more riding on this, chess is a game that requires forethought many moves in advance.
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Trial balloon
 
#607
#607


The current U.S. assessment is that Russia would need about 10 days to complete preparations for an invasion, should Putin decide to act. That has officials looking at a window from mid-January to the end of February as a potential crunch time.

According to a Ukrainian military map compiled around the New Year and seen by Bloomberg News, Russia now has 52 battalion tactical groups in close proximity to Ukraine. Russia has also developed capabilities to deploy more units in a short period of time, from one to two weeks, the Ukrainian assessment shows.
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#609
#609
The leaders of this country are nothing but stone cold liars and deceivers.

US Rejects Russia's Call To Halt NATO Expansion, Days Before Talks | ZeroHedge

On Friday, the US and NATO rejected a Russian call for the military alliance to halt its eastward expansion. Amid tensions around Ukraine, Russia submitted a series of security proposals to the US, and chief among the Russian requests is a guarantee that Ukraine won’t join NATO.

"NATO never promised not to admit new members; it could not and would not," Secretary of State Antony Blinken said after a virtual meeting of NATO’s foreign ministers.
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It never was about NATO adding new members, Blinken. It was about NATO moving eastward and on Russia's border. This is some dishonest and deceptive bulls^^t.
 
#610
#610
Rasputin_Vol said:
The leaders of this country are nothing but stone cold liars and deceivers.

US Rejects Russia's Call To Halt NATO Expansion, Days Before Talks | ZeroHedge



It never was about NATO adding new members, Blinken. It was about NATO moving eastward and on Russia's border. This is some dishonest and deceptive bulls^^t.
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And you fail to mention the Russians sent us terms that any sane person knows were never going to be accepted. I think its very certain that Russia made up these demands to be so laughable that they knew they would fail to justify military action. No other way around that line of thinking, things could get interesting here soon after these talks conclude.


 
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#613
#613
Talks are going nowhere. Russia has said they will resort to other means to force the issue. We have seen indications that Putin has started moving attack helicopters to the border and now BTGs from the Eastern Military District are now railing to the west and Iskanders have seen on the move. Someone said this all feels like 2003 Iraq where we went through the motions of the politics but he decision has been made.
 
#615
#615
Burhead said:
Talks are going nowhere. Russia has said they will resort to other means to force the issue. We have seen indications that Putin has started moving attack helicopters to the border and now BTGs from the Eastern Military District are now railing to the west and Iskanders have seen on the move. Someone said this all feels like 2003 Iraq where we went through the motions of the politics but he decision has been made.
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What are you implying "decision has been made"?
 
#617
#617
Burhead said:
I think Putin has made the decision to invade and just going through the motions to be able to say, "Hey look I tried diplomacy and we couldn't get it done" much like we did with the invasion of Iraq.
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Gotcha...you said "we" and it threw me off. A comparable reference of action by another nation..Actually thought you mistyped and forgot the "t" in "but he decision has been made" so wasnt sure which nation you were referencing, Dang one letter means a lot sometimes.
 
#619
#619
Lets ask ourselves..why should we even be involved other than trying to prevent a humanitarian crisis? Is it oil and pipelines or other natural resources? It certainly cannot be some righteous "democracy" of the people while our own Feds are taking us into a totalitarian state.
 
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#620
#620
Orangeburst said:
Lets ask ourselves..why should we even be involved other than trying to prevent a humanitarian crisis? Is it oil and pipelines or other natural resources? It certainly cannot be some righteous "democracy" of the people while our own Feds are taking us into a totalitarian state.
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I used to be an isolationist growing up. I think the time for that policy has come and gone. We're far to interconnected nowadays to have a totally hands off foreign policy. The days of the vast oceans giving us protection has come and gone. Now I don't believe we should be sending military off to every conflict everywhere but the US can't become like the Swiss or the world would really go up in flames.
 
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#621
#621
Burhead said:
I used to be an isolationist growing up. I think the time for that policy has come and gone. We're far to interconnected nowadays to have a totally hands off foreign policy. The days of the vast oceans giving us protection has come and gone. Now I don't believe we should be sending military off to every conflict everywhere but the US can't become like the Swiss or the world would really go up in flames.
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Foreign entanglement needs to be very subjective. It is still an American concentric world, but eroding. The Stans of the world just do need seem imperative for "blood and treasure". American allies need to share the burden, especially EU and counterparts in the ME. The Balkans were a wake up call for the EU decades ago. And what lights my fire is the leftists declaring Trump wanted to end NATO when asking them to spend 2% GDP for defense resources that they committed to many years or even decades prior.

Hey you want gas from Russia, so be it. We cannot fix stupidity.
 
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#622
#622
Burhead said:
I think Putin has made the decision to invade and just going through the motions to be able to say, "Hey look I tried diplomacy and we couldn't get it done" much like we did with the invasion of Iraq.
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The Russians are trying to negotiate with a dishonest and unbudging entity across the table from them in the United States. We throw out terms like "non-starter" and gaslight about not agreeing 30 years ago to push NATO on to Russia's borders.
 
#623
#623
Orangeburst said:
Lets ask ourselves..why should we even be involved other than trying to prevent a humanitarian crisis? Is it oil and pipelines or other natural resources? It certainly cannot be some righteous "democracy" of the people while our own Feds are taking us into a totalitarian state.
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It is two things. Energy/pipelines and Ukraine is a staging ground for a future war with Russia.
 
#624
#624
Burhead said:
I used to be an isolationist growing up. I think the time for that policy has come and gone. We're far to interconnected nowadays to have a totally hands off foreign policy. The days of the vast oceans giving us protection has come and gone. Now I don't believe we should be sending military off to every conflict everywhere but the US can't become like the Swiss or the world would really go up in flames.
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The Russians are not a threat to Main Street USA.
 
#625
#625
Rasputin_Vol said:
The Russians are not a threat to Main Street USA.
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But not militarily but they are to other countries. They are also actively working to create divisions in our cities and towns (still out fault for falling for it and turning stupid). They do not want a successful USA
 
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