War in Ukraine

#67,727
#67,727
Burhead said:
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If true this would mean that Belarus has entered the fray as Prigozhin's state sponsor....... An escalation in the conflict that would undoubtedly initiate a response by others in the region.

If true this isn't good. Another sign of desperation in Russia.
 
#67,731
#67,731
Burhead said:
Prig still hasn't been seen since leaving Rostov Saturday.
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A family friend who is currently helping in Ukraine reported their (his and locals) fear of Prigozhin getting an army together to the north. But I still don't think it's real. I think Prigozhin is likely dead. But with Russia who knows.
 
#67,732
#67,732
Septic said:
He'll never make it to trial.
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Something else to consider, Putin and Lukashenko can broker a deal...... The Kremlin doesn't have to abide by it. This could signal that Putin's sphere of influence in Russia has contracted.

Like I said in prior posts though..... This is Russia, I'm not even sure they know what the hell is going on, I sure as hell don't.
 
#67,733
#67,733
KB5252 said:
Something else to consider, Putin and Lukashenko can broker a deal...... The Kremlin doesn't have to abide by it. This could signal that Putin's sphere of influence in Russia has contracted.

Like I said in prior posts though..... This is Russia, I'm not even sure they know what the hell is going on, I sure as hell don't.
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W6G6S6i.jpg
 
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#67,735
#67,735
Rasputin_Vol said:
Use your common sense. At the very least, be cynical about all of this.
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I can't come up with an explanation for any of this really, that really makes sense to me.

Best thing I can come up with is this was a struggle between Wagner and the MoD, rather than Wagner vs the Kremlin, and not a real "coup" to take over. Prigozhin needed something to avoid Wagner getting folded into the MoD. Once he got that, he had no reason to keep going. There was real fighting, as reported by the Russians, sure it was fairly limited, but losing air assets seems extreme for a psyop. Putin also made multiple public comments regarding their internal problems while it was going on. At the very least that was going to push opinions on Wagner, which if its a psyop doesn't make sense. It also ensures that Wagner gets sent out of Russia, which is something else they clearly wanted. But Prizoghin did ended up making some public statements against Putin, including calls for the civilians to rise up. Ending up in Belarus seems an odd destination.

If it was orchestrated by Putin, I am not sure what he was trying to gain, unless he needed an excuse to dismiss Shoigu. But I am not sure why he would need a fake coup to do that. If Putin was trying to draw some other enemies, doesn't seem like any popped up before it was called off. Maybe it just wasn't announced. But again that is really risky because triggering a revolt is hard to stop. Also not sure why he would have initially balked at the peace negotiations if it was his plan all along. Also having to get Luko involved, doesn't speak towards Putin himself being very powerful.

If it was orchestrated by the US/CIA/West it seems odd that it ended relatively peacefully, and you would think a denouncement would come after the agreement. yet to happen. you would also assume Ukraine would have taken advantage of this and coordinated something. and I would assume then that Wagner would not have stayed in the Russian sphere after.

idk, maybe it was some 4D chess they just needed an excuse to reposition Wagner from the South, into Belarus without raising suspicion. As Wagner seems to be the only competent part of the Russian military, maybe they are wanting to open another front from that direction. also would lull Ukraine into thinking Wagner is out of the fight, and thus not expecting a fight from their direction anymore. but again the coup specter looms very large as a huge risk in a Russia that is clearly not fully behind this war. and publicly turning opinion against Wagner, if you assume Putin is as popular as some think he is, seems like more damage done. and they did actually shoot down some air, and there was actually some fighting.

like I started with nothing makes a ton of sense to me.
 
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#67,740
#67,740
WBO said:
If Trump had been President, Ukraine would already belong to Russia. If you say that's not true, then you aren't even trying to be truthful.
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lol, based on what? you can look at history and see what ACTUALLY happened, and it wasn't Putin taking advantage of Trump, it was Putin taking advantage of Obama and Obama's VP.

Obama/Biden were in charge in 2014 when this started, never sent lethal equipment to Ukraine.
Nothing happens during Trump's 4 years except the arming of Ukraine getting increased, including lethal equipment.
Biden was in charge when Putin invaded in 2022.

Trump's narcissism wouldn't have allowed him to let Ukraine fall. He can't stand to look weak.

I hate Trump but its a complete fallacy to argue this war would be worse, for Ukraine, under Trump.
 
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#67,741
#67,741
Rasputin_Vol said:
@davethevol
Use your common sense... don't listen to these clowns... or to me for that matter. Look at the situation over the past few days and come up with your own reasonable conclusions.
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you have yet to present an actual conclusion. what do you think this actually was? Why did things go down the way they did? If you posted your own thoughts somewhere else and I missed it, give me a post number and I will read it.
 
#67,742
#67,742
LouderVol said:
Obama/Biden were in charge in 2014 when this started, never sent lethal equipment to Ukraine.
Nothing happens during Trump's 4 years except the arming of Ukraine getting increased, including lethal equipment.
Biden was in charge when Putin invaded in 2022.

Trump's narcissism wouldn't have allowed him to let Ukraine fall. He can't stand to look weak.
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He reluctantly sent weapons that Congress had voted to send. Remember the impeachment?

Did Trump ever send anything to another country out of conviction?

I'm not going to speculate too much on what he might actually do, but you can't seriously believe he cares about Ukraine one way or the other.
 
#67,743
#67,743
Septic said:
Again, I'm not sure that proves anything other than Putin is an idiot. Which is something thats been established now for a year and a half.

If you think it means something else, please share.
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clearly means Putin wasn't working with Trump. and it shows that Putin wasn't scared at all about the Obama/Biden response. and largely he has been right about that.
 
#67,744
#67,744
Velo Vol said:
He reluctantly sent weapons that Congress had voted to send. Remember the impeachment?

Did Trump ever send anything to another country out of conviction?

I'm not going to speculate too much on what he might actually do, but you can't seriously believe he cares about Ukraine one way or the other.
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never said he actually cares about Ukraine itself. I specifically mentioned Trump's narcissism. He only cares about himself, and looking weak would be something he can't stand. doesn't matter what it is, in this case it just so happens to be Ukraine.

protest or no, it still happened, just like I blame him for the Covid response, even though that was him just stepping aside.
 
#67,746
#67,746
LouderVol said:
clearly means Putin wasn't working with Trump. and it shows that Putin wasn't scared at all about the Obama/Biden response. and largely he has been right about that.
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Yes, Obama could/should have done more. But as a practical matter, if Putin wanted to take Crimea, short of sending in US forces, was there anything we could do to stop it?

We could have sent a bunch of fancy weapons, but, in 2014, was the Ukrainian military up to doing much with them?
 
#67,747
#67,747
volbound1700 said:
There was an article out there by AP that Trump threatened to Nuke Moscow if Putin invaded Ukraine. That maybe one of the reasons it didn't happen when Trump was President.
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Trump wasn't nuking anyone. That's crazy. There's no way the DoD is allowing WWIII to start over the Ukraine. Don't be ridiculous. Even the fool that is Putin knew Trump couldn't start a world war over the Ukraine. It's a worthless bluff, at best.

What's troubling in this is the nukes Putin sent to Belarus. When the USSR fell, it was a very high priority for the world to get the USSR's nukes out of the splintering Baltic states because those little countries are easy targets for nukes to fall into the wrong hands. Putin reversed this and whether Prig stole enough money by raping the CAR mines in Africa to buy one or two for leverage...... is exactly why we got nukes out of those little corrupt countries (including the Ukraine.)

There are no "good guys" in any of this. Putin does the world no favors invading Ukraine in the first place. He does the world harm in spreading nukes around. He hires the Wagner mercenaries, lets them get revenue from protecting ultra corrupt African nations with massive mining resources, and then plays Wagner because his own military can't manage a war.

Prig, Zelensky, Lukashenko are opportunists. They are measuring this from the standpoint of: How much can I get out of this situation without Putin, the US, or China killing me? Nothing more, nothing less.

Most of this is neither good nor bad but theater to distract from the African nations getting raped for resources (again) by bigger players. The only really distressing move was Putin tossing nukes at Belarus....... like that's a stable place to put them.
 
#67,749
#67,749
I need to rewatch The Godfather to try and gain insight into these gangsters. I am not sure there is a Tom Hagen or Micheal Corleone among them. They mostly look like hotheads like Sonny.
 
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