War in Ukraine

[Vol737]

Insurrectionists are hard to beat. Vietnam was a great example, but a lot of people forget our own revolution. It was touch and go in the northeast, but when the Brits decided to start in S Carolina and go north, they got their butts handed to them basically guerilla style. Washington won at Yorktown, but it's always seemed to me that the real battle was lost in the Carolinas and Yorktown was mop up.

I read a lot of David McCullough. If you haven’t read it, read 1776. Excellent account of what you mentioned.

 

[Hunerwadel]

Dumbest response to date. But if this fairytale scenario did happen my question still stands. Wtf does it matter to the US? Russia would need to bring back USSR with half of Berlin in tow and some more of Europe to become an enemy. Russia has really nothing anyone wants.

Russia has what everybody wants, oil and gas. Not to mention tremendous reserves of metals and minerals. Are you for real?

 

[Hunerwadel]

Lefty or a supporter of the establishment of the Republican party. Lindsay Graham says hello

You really should get to know people here before you go and make asinine assumptions.

 

[NorthDallas40]

You really should get to know people here before you go and make asinine assumptions.

Oh hellz no it’s hilarious watching him fumble around

 

[OrangeBoro]

Lefty or a supporter of the establishment of the Republican party. Lindsay Graham says hello

All funding to bidens boy needs to end

 

[Hunerwadel]

Oh hellz no it’s hilarious watching him fumble around

May I borrow your clown emoji?

 

[vols40]

Russia has what everybody wants, oil and gas. Not to mention tremendous reserves of metals and minerals. Are you for real?

Then please tell me why this super power is not in the top 10 economies in the world? I'll wait.

 

[Hunerwadel]

Then please tell me why this super power is not in the top 10 economies in the world? I'll wait.

Because their government and industry leaders are so corrupt there is no incentive for talented insightful people to rise to the top and lead the way. That and about a dozen or two similar reasons. Now tell me why you think Russia doesn't have anything anyone wants. Just because Russia doesn't know how to use what they have doesn't mean no one else wants it.

 

[NorthDallas40]

May I borrow your clown emoji?

By all means please do

 

[vols40]

You really should get to know people here before you go and make asinine assumptions.

In open to being persuaded. I just haven't been. It sick of seeing countless money and even worse lives lost over wars that only continue to enrich the most vile elites in the world. How much better off would the United States be if not for these pointless wars?

I had a friend of mine that graduated one year after me. Went in the army and was part of Desert Storm. He described some scenes that were difficult to even hear. For what? How did this benefit the United States? How much did it cost us to remove Saddam? How much money was waisted in Vietnam and the War on Terror? Are Vietnam Iraq and Afghanistan better off now? How many people do you know that we're affected by these wars? The United States lost 58,000 people in Vietnam? For what? You are definitely entitled to your opinion and while I may give you sarcasm I respect you have your right to it. But this country has given enough in actual lives and money for zero in return. I'm not interested in these forever wars.

 

[Sgt_Nick_Fury]

It was never about morals, values, or character, it was always about the group think.



The sad yet predictable hilarity of watching people who gladly would back stab, and sully the name of our soliders over seas in the not very distant past, or protest whatever else NPR or Hollywood might encourage them to, now in full on war monger mode for a group that literally has actual nazi millitary groups for a regime long embroiled in the the drug trade, and human trafficking.....is beyond ironic. Virtue signaling only works when the virtue is not one's own but that of the "group". If I were to go back to 1985 and tell the left what they would champiuon in 2023 they would incredulously say it was paranoia, or insanity, that that would never be their positions. It is not I think that conservatives and liberals vary so much in our values, but that the left has no real values at all beyond to identify with the group, never questioning on who controls the group, or on what whim the group is motivated. Because..... GROUP! This is why there is no consistancy for those whose only constant is the herd.

 

[vols40]

Because their government and industry leaders are so corrupt there is no incentive for talented insightful people to rise to the top and lead the way. That and about a dozen or two similar reasons. Now tell me why you think Russia doesn't have anything anyone wants. Just because Russia doesn't know how to use what they have doesn't mean no one else wants it.

Ok who is going to take it from them? Are you advocating for an invasion of Russia? The United States was well on our way to becoming energy independent during the last administration. For dinner strange reason we are not now. Are you advocating we import oil from Russia? All the oil in the world does no good in 20 years if I can't put it in my freaking gas tank because I am forced to buy an electric car

 

[Sgt_Nick_Fury]

Why ask questions of reason and logic from those who find answers and moral authority only by a current hand count?

 

[vols40]

All funding to bidens boy needs to end

I'm not enthusiastic about the choices when it's two terds. Then it makes it more difficult when I am reminded that one of those terds has shaken me down for $100 billion as a "down payment"

 

[OrangeBoro]

I'm not enthusiastic about the choices when it's two terds. Then it makes it more difficult when I am reminded that one of those terds has shaken me down for $100 billion as a "down payment"

To me they are all the same. Don’t care about either and I am willing to throw Biden in as the 3rd party. All worthless, all corrupt, all 3 can get f’ed

 

[vols40]

To me they are all the same. Don’t care about either and I am willing to throw Biden in as the 3rd party. All worthless, all corrupt, all 3 can get f’ed

The old "and a player to be named later"

I like it

 

[Hunerwadel]

In open to being persuaded. I just haven't been. It sick of seeing countless money and even worse lives lost over wars that only continue to enrich the most vile elites in the world. How much better off would the United States be if not for these pointless wars?

I had a friend of mine that graduated one year after me. Went in the army and was part of Desert Storm. He described some scenes that were difficult to even hear. For what? How did this benefit the United States? How much did it cost us to remove Saddam? How much money was waisted in Vietnam and the War on Terror? Are Vietnam Iraq and Afghanistan better off now? How many people do you know that we're affected by these wars? The United States lost 58,000 people in Vietnam? For what? You are definitely entitled to your opinion and while I may give you sarcasm I respect you have your right to it. But this country has given enough in actual lives and money for zero in return. I'm not interested in these forever wars.

I'm not going to argue that the US hasn't made a ton of mistakes and self inflicted many wounds since WWII. I was born in the late 40's and have witnessed most of them and was involved up close and personal in one of them. But here's the deal. The Russian Empire and Soviet Union have been our enemy and the enemy of free people my entire life. For a while we had them tamped down a little but we failed to bury them. As Russia began to recover they began to flex their muscles again. Putin in the last decade has made it obvious that expansion was once again their goal. It really began to look like the 50' and 60' all over again. Then they made what may be a fatal mistake. They decided to reclaim the largest country entirely in Europe. What we didn't know, what the world didn't know and most importantly what Russia didn't know was that other than nuclear they are not a top military power. Because of that we may have the ability to change the course of history and change the world for the better. And we can do it without the loss of a single US soldier. All we and our allies have to do is support and supply Ukraine with the tools and it looks like they are willing and able to do the fighting.

So, I believe everything we are putting in to Ukraine is well worth the cost. If things fall in place (and it's a big if) Russia could become a partner and ally of the West by the next decade. If that happens that is going to leave China very much isolated and shall I say much more cooperative.

 

[vols40]

I'm not going to argue that the US hasn't made a ton of mistakes and self inflicted many wounds since WWII. I was born in the late 40's and have witnessed most of them and was involved up close and personal in one of them. But here's the deal. The Russian Empire and Soviet Union have been our enemy and the enemy of free people my entire life. For a while we had them tamped down a little but we failed to bury them. As Russia began to recover they began to flex their muscles again. Putin in the last decade has made it obvious that expansion was once again their goal. It really began to look like the 50' and 60' all over again. Then they made what may be a fatal mistake. They decided to reclaim the largest country entirely in Europe. What we didn't know, what the world didn't know and most importantly what Russia didn't know was that other than nuclear they are not a top military power. Because of that we may have the ability to change the course of history and change the world for the better. And we can do it without the loss of a single US soldier. All we and our allies have to do is support and supply Ukraine with the tools and it looks like they are willing and able to do the fighting.

So, I believe everything we are putting in to Ukraine is well worth the cost. If things fall in place (and it's a big if) Russia could become a partner and ally of the West by the next decade. If that happens that is going to leave China very much isolated and shall I say much more cooperative.

I will not just dismiss your well thought and pretty reasonable take on this.
Where I have a hard time is believing for one second that Ukraine is winning this war. Russia when the felt like walked right in and took Crimea with very little resistance. In my opinion Russia could if they wanted roll in and take whatever they want in Ukraine. All this nonsense over the weekend about 25,000 mercenaries marching towards Moscow and running rough shot over anyone. If this was the slightest but true wouldn't it be logical to see a Ukraine "offensive?" But not e peep. Now Wagner is reportedly being dismantled and Progozhin looks like a fool for trying to possibly start a civil war in Russia. And it looks like this " non military general" lost his men.



And while I am not as old as you I am old enough to remember the complete disaster of Vietnam. I also remember the real that if the USSR. However I see zero benefit from involving ourselves in a war. I don't see any one mentioning that there could be as many as 10-12 million Russians in Ukraine, most of which are in eastern Ukraine. Now I am not saying that 10 million people in eastern Ukraine are pro Putin but it certainly raises the question what do these 10 plus million people want.

 

[clarksvol00]

I'm not enthusiastic about the choices when it's two terds. Then it makes it more difficult when I am reminded that one of those terds has shaken me down for $100 billion as a "down payment"

You can't even spell "turd" correctly. I'm alerting the headmaster at Eton. Your "P"rivate "S"chool diploma will be summarily revoked.

 

[KB5252]

Are you aware that you are supporting a con man who has shook down the USA for currently $100 billion? A guy that Lindsay Graham has told "As much as it takes for as long as it takes"?

The days of Russia's military making them an enemy are over. If we are concerned about Communist dictators why haven't we sent $100 billion to Taiwan? China is by a long shot more of an enemy than Russia.

Why do you assume I support Zelensky? I just want Russia to go back home and leave their neighbors be. I can support that without supporting Zelensky.

And as long as Russia is the invading force I hope they lose..... embarrassingly.

You seem to make a lot of half cocked assumptions.

 

[KB5252]

The group I am discussing this with have one opinion, whatever they hear the MSM.

That it matters in the least WTF happens in Ukraine. Stay out of freaking civil wars. The US has a terrible track record of intervening. Put all of our resources in to bringing China to it's knees. How much farm land in the US does Russia own? The true enemy of America now.

If Russia takes all of Ukraine 100% how is this a negative for the United States?

If you don't know the answer to that question I give you way too much credit.

 

[KB5252]

Then please tell me why this super power is not in the top 10 economies in the world? I'll wait.

There's dozens of reasons but corruption and the lack of an open market principles and ideas are chief among them.

It's like the world's largest trailer park with it's own gas pumps.

 

[Hunerwadel]

I will not just dismiss your well thought and pretty reasonable take on this.
Where I have a hard time is believing for one second that Ukraine is winning this war. Russia when the felt like walked right in and took Crimea with very little resistance. In my opinion Russia could if they wanted roll in and take whatever they want in Ukraine. All this nonsense over the weekend about 25,000 mercenaries marching towards Moscow and running rough shot over anyone. If this was the slightest but true wouldn't it be logical to see a Ukraine "offensive?" But not e peep. Now Wagner is reportedly being dismantled and Progozhin looks like a fool for trying to possibly start a civil war in Russia. And it looks like this " non military general" lost his men.



And while I am not as old as you I am old enough to remember the complete disaster of Vietnam. I also remember the real that if the USSR. However I see zero benefit from involving ourselves in a war. I don't see any one mentioning that there could be as many as 10-12 million Russians in Ukraine, most of which are in eastern Ukraine. Now I am not saying that 10 million people in eastern Ukraine are pro Putin but it certainly raises the question what do these 10 plus million people want.

You might reconsider your belief about the direction of this war. Russia hasn't had the upper hand since the very early days of the invasion. Once the attack on Kiev was repelled and the invasion from the west stalled Russia has mostly been on the defensive. They control less territory than they did a year ago. They cannot occupy or control the territory they illegally annexed in September. It took them over six months and a hired army to take the minor city of Bakhmut and they have since basically lost it. Russia has a severe supply problem. They cannot replace their weapons and ammunition fast as they are using it while supplies from then West to Ukraine have continued unabated. Another problem Russia has is they are basically an army of conscripts who are untrained, unwilling and undersupplied. The reports they they are often being forced it to battle at gunpoint are so numerous and from so many sources that they are hard to dismiss. There are a couple of guys here who constantly post propaganda from Russian state owned media that will contradict this but if you read any of it just consider the source.

It it fair to ask why I believe this. I can only say that the reports coming out of the free Nations from around the world pretty much agree that this war is not going well for Russia. In fact if these reports can be believed it has been a complete disaster for Russia.

Those millions of Russians living in Ukraine are like the millions of Mexicans living in the Southwest US who are now US citizens. They have two choices they can be Americans of go back to Mexico. But they sure as hell don't get to move the border.

 

[Orangeburst]

You might reconsider your belief about the direction of this war. Russia hasn't had the upper hand since the very early days of the invasion. Once the attack on Kiev was repelled and the invasion from the west stalled Russia has mostly been on the defensive. They control less territory than they did a year ago. They cannot occupy or control the territory they illegally annexed in September. It took them over six months and a hired army to take the minor city of Bakhmut and they have since basically lost it. Russia has a severe supply problem. They cannot replace their weapons and ammunition fast as they are using it while supplies from then West to Ukraine have continued unabated. Another problem Russia has is they are basically an army of conscripts who are untrained, unwilling and undersupplied. The reports they they are often being forced it to battle at gunpoint are so numerous and from so many sources that they are hard to dismiss. There are a couple of guys here who constantly post propaganda from Russian state owned media that will contradict this but if you read any of it just consider the source.

It it fair to ask why I believe this. I can only say that the reports coming out of the free Nations from around the world pretty much agree that this war is not going well for Russia. In fact if these reports can be believed it has been a complete disaster for Russia.

Those millions of Russians living in Ukraine are like the millions of Mexicans living in the Southwest US who are now US citizens. They have two choices they can be Americans of go back to Mexico. But they sure as hell don't get to move the border.

Did you vote for Obama?

"After all, you don't call Russia our No. 1 enemy -- not Al-Qaida, Russia -- unless you're still stuck in a Cold War mind warp," Obama said, alluding to Republican rival Mitt Romney.

 

[norrislakevol]

Why do you assume I support Zelensky? I just want Russia to go back home and leave their neighbors be. I can support that without supporting Zelensky.

And as long as Russia is the invading force I hope they lose..... embarrassingly.

You seem to make a lot of half cocked assumptions.

This is basically the way I feel as well. Putin has been launching assaults on various neighbors for years now. That's never going to end unless he gets his wings clipped, and if this doesn't happen then he will just be emboldened and eventually hit a NATO country, embroiling us into WWIII. I hate the idea of sending cash to Ukraine....stupid idea. I don't trust Zelenski, I think he is a snakey little sh!t. I feel the same way about PUTIN too, and he was the one that launched a full scale invasion into the largest country in Europe, so he is the worst of the two and leads a country that has opposed the U.S. every step of the way for decades. It is a shame that hundreds of thousands will have to die because of his ambition of rebuilding the USSR. What a tool.